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221bBakerStreet
09-06-06, 09:19 PM
Man, have I got myself up you-know-what Creek. I don't know what to do or how to get out of it. PLEASE, someone tell me how to handle this! Let me see if I can accurately explain this situation. Here's the story:

I met my current best friend a year ago, and he and I (I'm a woman!) hit it off immediately. We've been together every single day, almost all day, ever since. We have no secrets from each other, pretty much our own language that no one else ever understands, and we've effectively drawn a circle around just the two of us that even our closest friends can't break into.

Back when I first met him, he was trying to go out with me. The first night we hung out together with mutual friends, he called me after we were both at home and said, "I think you're wonderful, and I want you. You've got a brain, and you use it, and I want to be with you." I told him that I wasn't ready for or into that just yet, and that I needed some time. So he stopped trying, and we've been strictly platonic ever since.

My problem is that now, I am stuck in a situation where I am practically this man's wife, but I have no title and no standing in his life. We spend every waking, non-at-work, moment together. We help each other with everything, and spend about 40 hours a week just sitting and talking, alone. We just UNDERSTAND each other. Through the good, the bad, and the ugly of the past 12 months, it's been Us Against the World. Car trouble, changing jobs, moving, other friends coming and going, problems in our families. We're also co-parents to a puppy we've adopted together.

He had a short, fubar relationship that ended a couple months ago, largely because there just isn't ROOM in his life for me and a gf, and the same goes for me and any bf's I might attempt. I mean, who wants to have a boyfriend who's ALWAYS with another chick, or on the phone with her when he's not? I told him back when his relationship was circling the drain that a big part of the problem was ME, and he said I was wrong. But I don't think I was--one woman to another, I used to see the look on her face when she showed up at her boyfriend's house and ONCE AGAIN, there I was. And what's more, when I tried to excuse myself, he would leave with ME.

Anyway, my problem now is that I am starting to feel crowded. I'd like to be in a relationship, but like I said, it's tough. Any men I meet or know see me with him all the time and back off, and it's tough to get away from him, even for one day. I don't mean that in a bad way, only that no matter where the two of us are, or the space between us, we almost always gravitate back to each other, and we tend to be possessive and clingy where the other is involved. I.E., he goes out of town for family reunions and graduations and calls me 12+ times a day, every day (Not exaggerating, either!). And it's the most natural thing in the world! Anyone else who did that would get a restraining order served. Him--I'd be pissed if he DIDN'T call!

It has occurred to me that I should, out of convenience, just date HIM. However, lately, every time I bring it up as a possibility, I get almost NO response from him, and certainly no action on it. Now my feelings are hurt that he used to be interested in me, and now he's not. Where did I lose him?

It also hurts me that he seems to always be making out with and kissing (and other stuff!) ugly, loser women. I mean, women that HE is even embarassed to admit he hooked up with. It's like he doesn't think he can do any better. Oddly enough, it's not jealousy I feel over any of these women (not even the gf!). Why should I be jealous? When I crook my finger he leaves them cold and comes running to me.

So now, I don't know how to get out of this. I can't lead him by the nose any more than I have already, and I don't want to make a fool of myself if he just isn't interested. And I don't want to lose my best friend. I've also tried putting some distance between us--weaning myself off of him and trying to ignore some of his calls and not be at his house all the time, trying to find other people to hang out with, getting hobbies that keep me busy--but it's like deep-sea diving in a raincoat; the Atlantic Ocean couldn't put distance between us. While I do these things, he's blowing my phone up and knocking on my door, and I am counting the minutes till I can get back to him.

I keep telling myself just to get over it, be his friend, and stop thinking of anything else, but he monopolizes ALL my time and I feel like I've EARNED a second look from him.

Please tell me what to do, men. I SO need your help on this one. Someone please point me in the right direction. What's going on here???

Lloyd95
09-06-06, 09:54 PM
Men and women cannot be platonic friends. Period. and you're kidding yourself if you think you can be.

Also, I would never date a girl whose "best friend" is a guy. It's strange, and see above.

vashti
09-06-06, 10:57 PM
Why should I be jealous? When I crook my finger he leaves them cold and comes running to me.

I think you overestimate how much power you have. After all, when you express interest in a real relationship, it doesn't sound like he is your lap dog.

Sooky
10-06-06, 01:56 AM
We've been together every single day, almost all day, ever since. We have no secrets from each other, pretty much our own language that no one else ever understands, and we've effectively drawn a circle around just the two of us that even our closest friends can't break into.

I'm not a man so technically I shouldn't be posting this but this seems very similar to a situation I have been developing so just thought I'd share my views in the unlikely event they might be of some help.


We spend every waking, non-at-work, moment together. We help each other with everything, and spend about 40 hours a week just sitting and talking, alone. We're also co-parents to a puppy we've adopted together.

Spending every waking, non-work moment together is an awful lot of time, it almost seems that your some how sharing your lives together in a special kind of friendship, I 've never had anything close to that til just recently when I met this guy who I talk to on the phone almost every night and online. Its kinda strange but no where near as close as what your descibing. From the sounds of it you can't do without each other so why fight it, why not just go with the flow? I'm guessing its because you see no future and you think your wasting you life in someway. Well I guess you really have to decide (and its definenately not easy I know) whether you are prepared to distance your self from him enough to start a life on your own and find another man to share your life with or whether you'd rather spend your life being sole mates with this guy even if your relationship goes no further than friendship with him. I'm not saying something else wont develop but it may take time and there sounds like theres a sizable risk that you would never be more than friends.


he goes out of town for family reunions and graduations and calls me 12+ times a day, every day (Not exaggerating, either!).

12 times a day!!! Wow!! Thats loads! It almost like hes kinda addicted to you or something.


It has occurred to me that I should, out of convenience, just date HIM. However, lately, every time I bring it up as a possibility, I get almost NO response from him, and certainly no action on it. Now my feelings are hurt that he used to be interested in me, and now he's not. Where did I lose him?

I think he probably thinks you don't really love / fancy him in that way. Maybe he even thinks your offering yourself up for a relationship as a kinda pitty or something and he may not feel comfortable with that. Maybe you have to ask yourself som tough questions first, like do I really like this guy in that way, and woud I be prepared to risk loosing our friendship if things get weird as the relationship changes. I've got a similar decision to make in many ways, as this guy really wants a relationship with me I think but I find it difficult to make myself to think about him in that way... I know its tough... :(


It also hurts me that he seems to always be making out with and kissing (and other stuff!) ugly, loser women. I mean, women that HE is even embarassed to admit he hooked up with. It's like he doesn't think he can do any better.

Is he pretty attractive himself then or do you think he is?


I keep telling myself just to get over it, be his friend, and stop thinking of anything else, but he monopolizes ALL my time and I feel like I've EARNED a second look from him.

I'm guessing (I maybe completely wrong so please don't jump to conclusions use the evidence you have) that he is still interested but he'd rather keep you as a friend as he feels you are not truely interested in him in that way. Its hard to know, but maybe do some thinking on your own because even if he is still interested in you maybe you need to think carefully if you are really interested in him in the right kinda way for a more romantic/sexual relationship to work...

Possibly you may need to talk to him more in depth about how you feel. What you really need to do before anything else, if you seriously want to consider a more intimate relationship, is train yourself to think about him differently. Not easy, but if you cringe every time you think of kissing him or anything then it probably wouldn't work out...

To summerise the main thing I'm saying is think carefully about how you really feel, before you jump in at the deep end... Is it really worth risking the friendship if you know you've got sizable doubts and oyu know your not really attracted to him in that way? Anyway, try flirting with him in a playful way maybe, to see how he responds, if he ignores it or doen't flirt back chances are he'd not interested.

Hope some of this advice is of some use to you... Good luck with everything! :)

221bBakerStreet
10-06-06, 02:59 AM
How right you both are. I have no power here, and being platonic friends with this man will not last much longer. Last week, for the first time, I actually said to him--kindly, in a nonfight tone, I promise--that we needed to stop spending ALL of our time together if we were never going to date. He threw a HUGE tantrum--HULK SMASH!!!--and demanded his house key back because apparently I "don't want to be friends with me anymore!"

Thirty minutes later, he left for work. When he came home that night, he asked me to keep his key, and no further mention was made of the discussion we'd had before he'd left for work. And the beat goes on, like before. Nothing's changed with us. (btw, The tantrum and fatalistic, the-sky-is-falling attitude, are both typical of his initial reaction to something he doesn't like hearing, and they're also red flags that SOMETHING I said to him either hurt him, scared him, or made him angry. He'll always talk sense and listen to reason once he's done with that.)

The truth is, I think he's content with things exactly the way they are. I mean, why wouldn't he be? I provide stability, ego-stroking, and emotional security. He's got a WIFE to get all his needs met, but he still gets to date other women. Me, on the other hand....SOMETHING IS ABOUT TO GIVE. I'm 29 years old, and I'd like to get married again and have another kid before it's too late; I don't have years to waste pouring all my heart, soul, time, effort, and emotion into a relationship that's not going anywhere. I would never DREAM of giving any man such an ultimatum, but the bottom line is, if he's not gonna sh*t, he needs to get off the pot and let someone else sit there. Isn't a year enough to time to decide?

The ONLY thing that makes me more nauseaous and heartsick than losing my best friend, is the idea of wasting 5 years this way. This is a painful way to live, and it's getting worse with time, the more it seems that he will, apparently, show interest in ANY WOMAN who shows interest in him, no matter what she looks or acts like....except me. I mention a cd I like, he buys it for me. I got no gas in the car, he slips me his last $10. He buys me tampons, I shave his back hair. But when it's time to look around for someone to go out on a date with, suddenly I'm not good enough? I admit that it stings, and it's stinging more and more as time passes.

But he's also MY stability, MY ego-stroker, MY emotional security and safety. He protects me from everything but HIM!!! I am hardly in a position to disagree with Lloyd95's comment about men and women kidding ourselves, especially when we are both single, available, and actively looking. When men and women THINK they are platonic friends, what is really going on? Am I gonna have to dump my best friend to get on with my life? Or should I wait a little while longer and see what happens?

221bBakerStreet
10-06-06, 03:50 AM
I'm not a man so technically I shouldn't be posting this but this seems very similar to a situation I have been developing so just thought I'd share my views in the unlikely event they might be of some help.

I appreciate your input. I know I am talking everyone's ear off today, but this is REALLY bugging me, and any serious advice at all is more than welcome.



Well I guess you really have to decide (and its definenately not easy I know) whether you are prepared to distance your self from him enough to start a life on your own and find another man to share your life with or whether you'd rather spend your life being sole mates with this guy even if your relationship goes no further than friendship with him. I'm not saying something else wont develop but it may take time and there sounds like theres a sizable risk that you would never be more than friends.

I can't keep doing what I've been doing. It's exhausting and painful. I'm not willing to be this kind of "friends" with a man for years, because there is ZERO chance that either of us will ever have a complete romantic relationship with anyone else, as long as we are the way we are. MY choices seem to be, lose my soul mate, or date him. I don't know how to "run after" a man; I've never had to. Back when we first met, he told me frankly that he was afraid of rejection and would only move on a woman if there was NO doubt she liked him. So before I give up on the friendship, should I just THROW myself at him? Seems I've got nothing to lose.



12 times a day!!! Wow!! Thats loads! It almost like hes kinda addicted to you or something.

Not addicted--clingy and possessive, like I said before.


I think he probably thinks you don't really love / fancy him in that way. Maybe he even thinks your offering yourself up for a relationship as a kinda pitty or something and he may not feel comfortable with that.

I think THAT may be exactly what it is.


Maybe you have to ask yourself som tough questions first, like do I really like this guy in that way, and woud I be prepared to risk loosing our friendship if things get weird as the relationship changes.

I have asked myself these questions, and the answer is--I'll either date him or lose him. I can't keep THIS up.



Is he pretty attractive himself then or do you think he is?

Neither of is is Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, but we both do okay. He's not the best-looking guy I know, or even the best-looking guy in my "Maybe" pile right now. But as the months have passed and we've gotten closer and spent more time together, I have become more and more attracted to him, like I tend to do. Many years ago, I realized that how attractive I think anyone--man or woman--is, depends largely on what I think of them, and my opinion about someone's looks changes as my opinion about THEM changes. Currently, I think he's hot. And he has NO idea.


I'm guessing (I maybe completely wrong so please don't jump to conclusions use the evidence you have) that he is still interested but he'd rather keep you as a friend as he feels you are not truely interested in him in that way. Its hard to know, but maybe do some thinking on your own because even if he is still interested in you maybe you need to think carefully if you are really interested in him in the right kinda way for a more romantic/sexual relationship to work...

I know he has a looong history of being "friends" with all the girls he could never have, and that he's pretty stung from it. I also recall that last fall he blurted out that he was thinking of dating some chick because "The one I want (implied: ME) doesn't want me!" More recently, I "jokingly" mentioned that we should just have sex with each other, for convenience sake, and that there would be no romantic feelings and no bullcrap, and that it would be like masturbating (I was actually trying to find out if he was attracted to me without pressuring him. Boy, did I screw THAT up.) At that point, he said 'I think you just hurt my feelings.' And I said, "What???" and he said, "Nothing. Let's go to Taco Bell, I'm hungry." And he would comment on the subject no more.


Hope some of this advice is of some use to you... Good luck with everything! :)

Do any opinions change with this new information?

Ellynn
10-06-06, 04:18 AM
I replied to your post in the other forum....

But anyways, you definately need to do something about this.. yes maybe you wasted 5 yrs if nothing comes out of this....but its better then wasting 10 or 15 yrs on someone whos never gonna be more then a friend...

I know it sounds bad to give him an ultimatum, and I usually advise against it...but in your case, I definately would. I agree he should either sh*t or get off the pot!! I mean you guys are obviously older and not in high school anymore...

If you really want to be with him, you need to tell him that.. Instead of just saying..."where do you see us going?" or "Do you want a relationship?" Thats too vague..and it puts him on the spot once again... And who knows? Maybe he feels he will be rejected once again as anything more then a friend.

Be more direct and tell him you want a relationship.....or that you think hes sexy..and that you want more with him.etc. If he is what you want, go after it! I mean he did pursue you in the past, but you turned him down... So maybe he feels hes in the friends zone with you.....even though its obvious that theres alot more there..

If you don't want to be with him, then you need to let him know...and I mean ASAP. Also, even though its probably awesome to get the attention your getting, its definately gonna chase away other guys who might be interested.. So your gonna have to make a decision.....and then distance yourself from him...

221bBakerStreet
10-06-06, 06:13 AM
Thanks for both of your answers. I'm at my wit's end and had NO IDEA which way was up anymore.

You're right--all of you are. My only remaining questions are about METHOD.

Have I not been clear enough about how I feel already? Is our problem just that he DOESN'T KNOW I am interested in him? I don't think it is. I think the reason he has not made me his gf is because he doesn't have to. He already has all the benefits of a relationship with none of the liabilities. When I met him, I think he was willing to do whatever it took to make me his, and I taught him that he doesn't have to do much at all, apparently.

What's the best way to undo this damage I've caused? Will "voting with my feet" be a more effective means of communication in this case than a "conversation" that WILL turn into a debate (he's as wordy as I am, lol) or even an argument? Rather than TELL him I am bailing if he's not gonna ask me out, should I not just DO it?

In the past, I have had REALLY good results setting down boundaries with him by saying nothing, but simply walking away when he pulls a "dealbreaker," and then ignoring him for a few days (once for TEN days) and being unavailable. I have to leave town and keep my phone turned off, but I can do it. And it works! Then, when I think he's been grounded long enough, I come back. I usually hang out with him a couple days without mentioning the incident, then when he feels secure and comfortable again, I tell him, very simply and only once, that "If you ever do xyz again, I'm going to have no choice but to abc. Don't treat me that way again." He says okay, and he NEVER does it again. (This has happened 3 times in the year I've known him.)

I said all that to say this--I know him. He's stubborn like me, and neither of us handle being strong-armed very well at all, and the person trying it usually winds up wishing they hadn't. Direct confrontations between the two of us are combative, competitive, destructive, and non-productive. I think my best route might be just to disappear for a week at a time, and then check in with him every 7th day or so. When he starts asking why I'm never around anymore, then answer him simply and honestly, without whining or needling.

After a month or so of that, he'll either be shriveling up without me, or he'll forget my name. But I've got so much faith in our friendship, I've got nothing to worry about, right? Either way, it'll be nice to know, and this way I won't shatter my creditability with idle threats.

What say you, Oh Givers Of Good Advice? Is this all completely insane or not??? Am I being too hard on him now?

dreamer101
10-06-06, 10:25 AM
Hi, you took the road less travelled eh, and seems u've been on it for quite some time. i was on a similar road, but i don't have any advice to give since there are others her more wiser than me. but i give you my analysis :-) .. will only cost you 2c


I think the reason he has not made me his gf is because he doesn't have to. He already has all the benefits of a relationship with none of the liabilities?

i think otherwise. for a guy the benefits of relationship is sex, and ofcourse all that other lovey dovey stuff... from your post i understand you guys aren't doing it. he even got upset to hear your idea of having sex with him. so that tells me he sees you differently. either as a really good friend or you know, as THE ONE. And he has already asked you out once, so he prob doesn't see you as a really good friend. its unnatural (yes unnatural) for a guy to desire a girl and then just be so close as friends. what is more plausible is that he might simply be reluctant to rock the boat and lose what he has with you. same as you are. esp if he has accepted that he is in your friends zone.

As for the METHOD, I disagree with disappearing for a week. Take the simple approach. Face-to-face. You are attracted to him, have been for quite some time, so just tell him. in black and white. then you can disappear if he is not party to it. you are too old to play games now.

and i dont think thats being hard on him, infact you are being honest with him, and who knows he might have been waiting all this time ... i think so.

221bBakerStreet
10-06-06, 12:22 PM
So if I just say nothing, will he eventually come around? I find it hard to believe that he has these kinds of feelings for me, but I had ONE chance to say yes a year ago, missed it, and now the window of opportunity is closed forever.

If I never say anything, and allow things to continue like they are, will we just NEVER be more than friends? Would he sit by and watch me date and marry another man and STILL say nothing?

vashti
10-06-06, 01:57 PM
You are spending this much time with a MARRIED man? Are you crazy?

Ellynn
10-06-06, 02:33 PM
So if I just say nothing, will he eventually come around? I find it hard to believe that he has these kinds of feelings for me, but I had ONE chance to say yes a year ago, missed it, and now the window of opportunity is closed forever.

If I never say anything, and allow things to continue like they are, will we just NEVER be more than friends? Would he sit by and watch me date and marry another man and STILL say nothing?


Sounds like your afraid to tell him how you feel. But if your as close as you claim, it shouldn't be an issue... Somethings gotta give...and why would u put yourself thru all this for another few yrs instead of just saying something??

He won't sit by and watch you get married to someone else, because that will never happen. He consumes all of your time and scares off any other guys... Plus, u know u put him first because u want to be with him! So therefore, its time to say something... Why wait around for him? I mean he took his chances a few times with you....and u shot him down! Now the ball is in your court... You need to do something... Its never too late...and then at least you will know...

Then you need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life playing these games....or if u actually want to finally take a step forward... I mean come on....your almost 30 yrs old.... I think you also need to shit or get off the pot!

Either you like him or you don't... Pick..one...and then do whatever you can to support your choice.

Ellynn
10-06-06, 02:35 PM
You are spending this much time with a MARRIED man? Are you crazy?


What?? He's married?!?!

221bBakerStreet
10-06-06, 06:52 PM
You are spending this much time with a MARRIED man? Are you crazy?


What??? What thread are YOU reading? He's not married, he's not even seeing anyone.

221bBakerStreet
10-06-06, 07:15 PM
What?? He's married?!?!

NO!!! Of course not! We're both single, and neither of us is even seriously seeing anyone else. And he's got no kids at all (I have a 7 yo son), just our little girl, the 6-month old pit bull we share, that we refer to as "the baby".

HE'S NOT MARRIED!

Ellynn
10-06-06, 07:31 PM
Ok, thats what I thought... I didn't think he was....cuz I never saw it mentioned...

dreamer101
10-06-06, 08:19 PM
So if I just say nothing, will he eventually come around? I find it hard to believe that he has these kinds of feelings for me, but I had ONE chance to say yes a year ago, missed it, and now the window of opportunity is closed forever.

If I never say anything, and allow things to continue like they are, will we just NEVER be more than friends? Would he sit by and watch me date and marry another man and STILL say nothing?

if he has been burnt in the past by girls that he wanted and ended up being friends with, then no he won't eventually come around. and no neither will would he be at your wedding. neither of you hvae had a serious relationship so neither of you know if the other would stick around as a 'friend' if you found your soul mate, from a guys POV, i doubt that he would. and then as ellyn said somethings gotta give. so what is ur hesitation? you like him, are attracted to him, need him, want him, etc etc .. then why cant you just tell him? phew if only women came with a manual :) .. jokes.

look the windows of opportunity isnt closed, it just got bigger, why? because friendship i beleive is the foundation for love and relationships. you already have that. and the guy has already confessed his desire for you, and his actions confess that too. and if anythign that desire would have grown, he is prob just controlling it because he has been burnt in the past. just need to open the curtains now i think.

in any case whatever happens as ellyn said, at least you know... and can take solace in knowing that you were true to your heart. the loss or gain will then be his.

vashti
10-06-06, 11:25 PM
The truth is, I think he's content with things exactly the way they are. I mean, why wouldn't he be? I provide stability, ego-stroking, and emotional security. He's got a WIFE to get all his needs met, but he still gets to date other women. Me, on the other hand....SOMETHING IS ABOUT TO GIVE. I'm 29 years old, and I'd like to get married again and have another kid before it's too late

Ah, sorry. I took this literally.

Ellynn
11-06-06, 02:44 AM
Vashti....Ahh.....thats where you got that from... Its ok...I've misread a few of these things myself a few times...

Dreamer is right... Friendship is the basis to any relationship... Its what holds you together and goes hand in hand with love..

So do yourself and this guy a favor....and totally just tell him how you feel. Lay it all out... And then whatever happens happens.. Then at least you know...and can go from there.

Gigabitch
11-06-06, 03:10 AM
IMO, you two need to get a little drunk and get into bed already. Either it'll work or it won't, but at least something will happen.

You shave his back hair. That's pretty intimate. You deserve an orgasm.

Sooky
11-06-06, 03:22 AM
Neither of is is Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, but we both do okay. He's not the best-looking guy I know, or even the best-looking guy in my "Maybe" pile right now. But as the months have passed and we've gotten closer and spent more time together, I have become more and more attracted to him, like I tend to do. Many years ago, I realized that how attractive I think anyone--man or woman--is, depends largely on what I think of them, and my opinion about someone's looks changes as my opinion about THEM changes. Currently, I think he's hot. And he has NO idea.


I agree with everyone else. If you really like him and are attracted to him etc... Go for it! Like you say you'd rather get on with your life whether he's interested or not. If your going to distance yourself from him as a friend anyway, why not take the chance and tell him how you feel.

Because your so close, if your honest, the worst he can really say is no he doesn't feel that way. However, if you walk away then theres a 100% chance you've lost, so why not just tell him how you feel. Sounds to me like he definately still likes you in some shape or form anyway and as you say he liked you in the past so why not just tell him?

Good Luck! :)

221bBakerStreet
11-06-06, 06:10 AM
IMO, you two need to get a little drunk and get into bed already. Either it'll work or it won't, but at least something will happen.

You shave his back hair. That's pretty intimate. You deserve an orgasm.


Awesome. B-)

Gigabitch
13-06-06, 06:26 AM
Tell us how it all works out- you should be jumping him soon....

221bBakerStreet
13-06-06, 12:57 PM
Oh, don't doubt that I will keep everyone up to date. Just to let you guys know, the last several days we've been hanging out together 8+ hours a day, which is why I haven't had time to get on here for a while. ;)

But you may have to be patient, I am going to wait at least a week or so before I do anything. We're taking a trip out of state together in two weeks; I may say something then. OR--we always share a bed when we travel. Maybe I'll just get him drunk and have sex with him. :evil: (I'm kidding?)

But, to be honest, I am still giving my next move a long, hard, think. When you know each other as well as we do, you see EVERYTHING. As I've been advised here, I'm giving serious thought to what I really want before I do anything. We understand each other, and I really dig the dude, but he's FAR from perfect (likewise, I am sure!).

Often, we take the puppy and my son to the local park/playground, and a lot of our talking gets done while we sit at a picnic table and they play. This afternoon, at the park, he reiterated to me that he WAS a one-girl man, looking for a relationship. He's said that a few times now, during our heart-to-hearts. He seems to think that I seem to think that he's only interested in playing the field, and that I don't take him seriously.

Plus, I'd be lying by omission if I didn't say that I am still trying to figure out exactly WHAT approach to take when propositioning a man. Call me old-fashioned, but I've never done it before.

He made out with a dumb, ugly, loser girl that he doesn't even like, night before last, just cause she was offering. It pissed me off. He has NO idea.

Also, while he's been at work all this week, I've been hanging out with his roommate/best friend, every night but tonight (Roommate had a paper to write tonight. All three of us are f/t college students). I've had to reassure my friend a few times already that I am NOT attracted to/interested in Roommate, but lately Roommate and I have been hanging out together a lot. I can tell that's pissing HIM off, and he THINKS I have no idea.

The truth is, Roommate is cool guy (cute, too!), and he's fun to hang out with when my friend isn't around. But I'm really NOT into Roommate, nor him into me, as far as I know. I may just be enjoying making my friend uncomfortable. That's legal, isn't it?

Ellynn
13-06-06, 01:13 PM
Its legal....but its also messing with his mind... I mean you like him.....he likes you. He tried to be in a relationship with you in the past....and you turned him down.. Now you guys are friends.. Spend ALOT of time together.etc...

And now your trying to make him jealous? Why? You know he likes you.... Why not just cut to the chase and make a move... If anything....just kiss him... I mean you said your not good with bringing it all up....so maybe your actions will get the point across loud and clear..

If you don't do something soon, you might miss your chance once again....and possibly for good.. What if one of these loser girls end up really striking his interest? Now that will hurt you.... Why do all this back and forth stuff when its been going on for too long already?

Do something!

221bBakerStreet
13-06-06, 01:22 PM
Ellynn, I DON'T know that he likes me.

Yes, it's childish to make him jealous, and I admit to that. But I'm hanging out with Roommate cause he's cool people, not JUST to make my friend jealous.

I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time working up the courage to throw myself at a man, even if he IS my best friend. Seeing that he's uncomfortable with me spending time with other single guys is making me feel better about approaching him. I'm still not sure that his "jealousy" isn't just the possessiveness of an only child who is not used to sharing his toys.

dreamer101
13-06-06, 02:47 PM
You still don't know if he likes you? are you kidding? look just give me his contact details and i'll tell him myself. ;)

in all seriousness, if you keep sleeping on it like this, and when do you tell him then he just might get angry for messing with him like this. its not very nice.

Ellynn
13-06-06, 05:38 PM
Ok, but it definately sounds to me like he does.. What do u have to lose? I mean you spend alot of time together as it is... If you find out he doesn't like you like that, then you know you need to distance yourself from him and find someone who does like you like that... Cuz, face it, not alot of guys will deal with you hanging with your best guy friend for 8+ hrs a day...

And honestly, maybe you need to just throw yourself at him. I know it seems desperate....but he tried with you already in the past..and you shot him down...!!

Do you really think hes gonna try again? I mean rejection hurts! So, he probably figures if he can't have u as a gf, he will settle for a close friendship..

The ball is in your court hun... Unless you want to sit here pineing away forever..u need to do something! Otherwise, the opportunity is gonna pass you by and your gonna be kicking yourself later on.. Or, your just gonna be stuck in a rut for a long time....

I know I may be blunt......but just trying to help! You seem unsure in some way.. Like you like the chase and wondering more then the actual catch... So figure out what you want and then go for it...

221bBakerStreet
14-06-06, 12:48 PM
Well, I figure we're already stuck in a rut after more than a year, so another week or so won't hurt.

The truth is, my plan--such as it is--is to just back off a little and try to get some perspective. But--since his last makeout with the Dogface, our HULK SMASH argument, and me spending so much time with Roommate, I figured all that was not the best note to go out on. So I am going to spend a few days getting our friendship back on track, to be fair, then I am going to try to cut down on the amount of time we spend together, and get my head on straight.

Plus, I may be a little old-fashioned, but my mama taught me that if a man really wants you, he'll come find you, not the other way around. And ONE turn-down a year ago would not put off a man who really wanted me. I feel like I'm making excuses for him, but the bottom line is, he's just not that into me in any non-platonic way.

And, as much as it sucks, the next natural step from THERE is to get on with my life. I am NOT interested in wasting years and years being single, and "best friends" with a single man. If--God Forbid--I did wind up hooking up with Roommate (not a chance!) it may jog him out of his rut.

Am I being a complete psycho? Someone tell me I'm psycho, quick. Roommate is on his way over here right now and will arrive any minute.

vashti
14-06-06, 10:38 PM
Haven't you told him recently of your deeper interest in him? If so, I'm inclined to agree that you've given him the invitation. I think he is dragging his feet because he is unsure. That being the case, I think you should repair whatever damage you may have done by attempting to make him jealous, lay all your cards on the table, and then tell him you need to back off all the hanging around together if he does not reciprocate your interest so you are free to find someone who loves you.

Zero Interrupt
14-06-06, 11:40 PM
Jesus "****ing" Christ.

I have been in the exact same position. I mean exact. It's a long story, that at first didn't end well, then did, then didn't again, but the last one wasn't because of the situation in the first place. Like I said: long, complicated story. Jenn and I practically lived together for six months, sans the sex, And did absolutely everything together.

Advice the first: BE BLUNT, for chrissakes. This is one big, messy web of ambiguity, and shows the evils of the absence of communication. Open your mouth and speak words, and do not beat around the bush. Tell him everything, and when he freaks out, tell him to sit down and shut the hell up until you've finished, then let him talk. If you're telling the truth about wanting to be with him, do not back off, because that will just reinforce this opinion he has that you don't want him. Don't be tricky, don't be sly, don't try to be subtle, BE BLUNT. BE CLEAR.

Advice the second: Show him this thread.

221bBakerStreet
15-06-06, 11:49 AM
Jesus "****ing" Christ.

I have been in the exact same position. I mean exact. It's a long story, that at first didn't end well, then did, then didn't again, but the last one wasn't because of the situation in the first place. Like I said: long, complicated story. Jenn and I practically lived together for six months, sans the sex, And did absolutely everything together.

Advice the first: BE BLUNT, for chrissakes. This is one big, messy web of ambiguity, and shows the evils of the absence of communication. Open your mouth and speak words, and do not beat around the bush. Tell him everything, and when he freaks out, tell him to sit down and shut the hell up until you've finished, then let him talk. If you're telling the truth about wanting to be with him, do not back off, because that will just reinforce this opinion he has that you don't want him. Don't be tricky, don't be sly, don't try to be subtle, BE BLUNT. BE CLEAR.

Advice the second: Show him this thread.


You've been here before??? What finally changed you and Jenn's "Friends" status? Please tell me exactly how it happened, who said what, and how long it took. PLEASE!!!!

And as scared shitless as it makes me, I think I'm going to take your advice the second this very evening. AUGHHHH!!!! (Running in circles, tearing my hair, screaming in abject horror at my own actions) If he turns up posting on here pretty soon, don't be surprised. OHMIGOD I must be nuts......

Zero Interrupt
15-06-06, 08:06 PM
Well, like I said, it's a long, ****ed-up story, and it didn't end well, mostly my fault. But maybe it'll help. Remember that this does not have to be you, though. I'll try to abridge the story as best I can.

For starters, I'm not even remotely physically attractive. I'm a 6'4" cornfed, very overweight redneck. But I don't have hangups about it, it's just facing facts.

Jennifer and I met at my friend's computer shop, and we immediately didn't like each other. I amde a joke about her being dressed like Sporty Spice, and she got pissed off about it. Then I found out she went to the same tech school I went to, and lived in the dorm next to me. A couple weeks later, she knocked on my door asking for a ride to our mutual friend's computer shop, so she could borrow a computer to study something on the internet. Being the Texan I am, I said sure. On the way, I was hungry and stopped in Burger King, and asked if she wanted anything, bought her dinner (nice guy I am), and we warmed up and started talking on the way there, and we just clicked. WE talked like we'd known each other for years, for the rest of the evening, and on the drive home, and into my dorm/apartment (every person had their own private bedroom) where we watched TV and talked all night I thought to myself, "wow, she turned out to be cooler than I originally thought. I have a platonic female friend now. Neat."

So she started showing up at my place every day. We'd talk, she'd use my computer, we'd watch TV, or rent a movie. We became best friends. Then one night - it was like a scene from a freakin' movie - Big thunderstorm comes, knocks the power out. My roomates are gone for the weekend, so it's just me and her, candles all over the place, eating ritz crackers and EZ-cheese for dinner, and talking all night, into the AM. We both got into deeply personal stuff. Old friends, old girl/boyfriends, family issues, about my overbearing father and her father recently dying, and suddenly I come upon the realization that I was attracted to her, romantically. And for once, I decided to make the leap without thinking about it, and told her, right there.

"Ok, at the risk of looking like an jackass, in retrospect, I really like you."
Her eyes light up a bit, curiously.
"Heh, yeah man , I like you too."
"Well, I mean, I likeyou. In that way."
Then that look, like a deer caught in headlights. We look at each other, an d I think I'm about to ****ing pass out on the floor, then finally...
"Um.... I'm not... good, at relationhips...."

Then she said goodbye, got up, and walked out the door. I didn't see her again for two weeks.

Then, one evening, I see her walk past my window again, and that knock at the door. She's rented some movies, and wants to watch them. I tell her to come in, and we sit and watch the movies, then some TV, then talk for a bit, then she goes back to her place. ove rthe next few days, same thing. she comes by and we hang out, like we used to, and I start to think, "Ok, this is my answer. We're to be friends." I start to think that maybe I can push my feelings aside, and jsut be feinds with this woman. Hell, I'd done it before. So for the next month or so, that's what I do. things return to normal.

Then one Sunday evening I'm driving hom from my weekend job, during another giant thunderstorm, and as usual, hoping that I see her car there when I pull into the parking lot, and it is. Then I see something else: Someone sitting on the stoop in this storm, outside her apartment. Then I realize it's Jenn, sitting there getting soaked, and yelling something. I park my car, and start to walk toward her, and then I can hear her, screaming up into the sky, at God, "Bring it on, mother****er! Is that all you got, you pussy!? Come on, you sack of shit, BRING IT!"

And it was at this precise moment, that I fully realized that I could never be just friends with her. That I was, head over heels, hopelessly in love with her.

We spent that evening running around in the rainstorm like a couple of idiots. Took my golf driver out (I don't play golf, I forget where I got the damn thing), and were hitting cans and random objects off into the street. And every second I was falling more and more in love with her.

So I decided I needed to bite the bullet, and tell her as much. A week later, we were talking with a friend of mine about how we needed to get the hell out of this cesspool, Texas, and move somewhere else, like the coast of Mississippi, where I lived to look for work for a few months. Beautiful place. Got wiped out by Katrina, though, more recently. But Jennifer's stoked about the idea, and she's still talking about it on the way home.

"Yaeh man, I'm serious about this. We all need to get the **** out of here and move down there. Share an apartment, get jobs at conveniece stores or something, or a New Orleans casino."
"Yeah, but if we got an apartment together, there'd be a problem. I might be wanting it to be something you're not."
"What's that?"
"You do realize that I am hopelessly, completely in love with you?"

Several seconds of awkward silence.

"I don't know what to say to that. I really have no idea what to say, literally."

We got home, she got out of my car, and went to her place without a word.

A week and a half later, she knocked on my door again. With rented movies. I locked it, and said I was busy. She got angry, yelled "What the **** is your problem?", and finally left. Never came back.

So I ended up dropping out of school, moved back home and in with my parents, because I didn't have a place to stay, or a regular job yet.

Cut to a year later, that mutual friend with the computer shop calls me up and says that Jennifer came by, and was asking about me. A month later, I get a letter from Jennifer, saying that she's sorry. She was ****ed up in the head, didn't know how to deal with things, and she sitting there back home in Arkansas one night, and suddenly realized that she loves me. That she loved me the whole time, and didn't realize it. That the only time in her life that she ever felt completely safe and happy was around me, and she's coming back to Texas to see me, and wants to be with me. Forever.

And the next two weeks until then were the happiest and most anxious in my life.

Thanksgiving Day, 2000. I skipped out on my family's Thanksgiving to see her. I met her, hugged her hello, and we spent the day together. She talked about how she was going to move back here, to be near me, adn we could work things out from there. At the end of the day, I kissed her goodbye, and told her I loved her. she said she loved me. then she got in her car and drove away.

Two weeks later I get another letter. Saying she needs to work some problems out, that she's not sure she can deal with a relationship, and that of course, it's not me, it's her.

And that's the end of it. Haven't seen nor heard from her since. I fell into a long, three-year depression after that, that took its toll on me emotionally and physically. I didn't take care of myself, I could barely keep a job... But eventually I pulled myself out of it, and I call myself being okay now.

Damn, I'm not sure I should have told this story, but... I still glad I knew her, and glad I handled things the way I did. I can only imagine how much worse it could have been if I'd stayed silent.

221bBakerStreet
16-06-06, 02:30 AM
Wow---that may be the saddest goddamn thing I've heard in years.

See, THIS story is precisely the kind of situation I am trying to avoid.

So that ONE Thanksgiving day is the only time you've ever been with her, as a MAN, and not a friend???? Then she went home, sent a letter dumping you, and you're still pining for her six years later????? When you said it went well for a while, I thought you mean more than ONE DAY.

Jesus, man! Are you TRYING to scare the piss out of me??? How can you say you are GLAD you said anything? Don't you think that if you had just shut the hell up, you might still have your best friend????

Dude, seriously, I have been on Jenn's side of this situation SO many times. She was NOT interested in a romantic relationship with you, but you made the friendship too awkward for her. When she wrote you from Arkansas, someone had just hurt her, and she was looking for some security, I'll bet. She blurted out something she probably didn't mean at the time, then regretted it later because it led you on.

Are you sure it's not true that all you've accomplished here is to ruin a great friendship for absolutely nothing??? You can't imagine how much worse it would be if you'd stayed silent??? HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLE BE ANY WORSE???? SHE'S IN A DIFFERENT STATE AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HER ANYMORE.

I suppose if she'd tripped you on purpose on the way to the airport on thanksgiving, and you'd fallen and broken your leg, this story MIGHT be a little sadder, but I don't know any other way to make it worse.

Dude....this story was so brutal....I'd rather kill myself than have my friend and I turn out like this. You've been running after an unresponsive target for almost a decade, you uprooted and tore up your entire life for her, set back your career WHO KNOWS how many years in the process, and you are still clinging to the memory of the ONE DAY in all that time that she showed barely perceptible romantic interest in you???

Man, see, THIS is the reason I am afraid to say anything! I just think, if he was interested in me, I wouldn't HAVE to keep running after him! Am I wrong???

Zero Interrupt
16-06-06, 03:15 AM
Do you really think not telling her, and the psychological torture of being around her every day, talking to her, sharing intimate stories with each other, but not being with her, when I was in love with her, would be better? That's why I started not to tell the story at all, but then you asked, and I thought it might be a frame of reference.

I think my version ended much better, for all involved. I'm not saying everything ended right, or that me and Jenn should have been together, and now I don't pine for her so much. I'm dating another woman now. But my path was better than the alternative. I've been in that "friend" situation too many damn times. It doesn't work, and it drives you ****ing insane.

There's a major difference between our two stories. The two of you are physically attracted to each other, you know this for a fact, though he seems not to. And you already know you're emotionally sympatico.

Jennifer wasn't trying to find me "suddenly" because she was "hurt by someone". She'd been trying to locate me for months, and finally thought to try our old mutual friend. Even if it only worked for that day, it was at least something, and the "friends" problem wasn't the reason she left, it was for other, more personal, issues. She's ****ed up, and I'm ****ed up, and that was the reason we couldn't be together at the time. It wasn't anything to do with "losing the friendship". She had issues with relationships, and thought she was past them. I was trying to bring that point across, but I guess I didn't. Jenn and I didn't fail becasue we "broke the friendship", we failed because we were both very ****ed up. Things turned out as they should have.

Maybe you don't really care for the guy, that's what it sounds like to me. But eventually, you're going to have to make the decision between having a relationship with a man, and having this friend around. The two concepts are mutually exclusive, whether you finally make the jump with him or keep him at arm's length to go after another guy, but things cannot continue as they are.

Oh, and


set back your career WHO KNOWS how many years in the process

I dropped out of the school because I was already flunking, not because of her so much. The teachers were completely inept.


Edit Part Deux:


Man, see, THIS is the reason I am afraid to say anything! I just think, if he was interested in me, I wouldn't HAVE to keep running after him! Am I wrong???

Yes. You have to remember, that in the beginning, you kind of rejected him. That was the foundation for your relationship with him. That means you are the one who's going to have to work harder, not just "hint around" that you might be interested.

I went back and re-read your original post...



I keep telling myself just to get over it, be his friend, and stop thinking of anything else, but he monopolizes ALL my time and I feel like I've EARNED a second look from him.

Earned? No, you haven't. This guy is stronger than me, and can apparently keep a friendly relationship with a woman he's romantically interested in. Or maybe he ****s up in a different way, oh, I don't know, like dating ugly, bitch-women, sabotaging himself so he doesn't miss out on the one he really wants?

Wake up, chickie, and SPEAK. This ambiguity people feel the need to have in their interpersonal relationships is what's screwing us all up. You haven't "earned" anything, until you work for it.

Zero Interrupt
16-06-06, 03:51 AM
I don't feel like editing that post again, so I'll just double-post my afterword.

Your entire question is dubious to begin with. You seek an answer to a problem that you don't even know the question to. There is no Deus Ex Machina to solve this that assumes no risk. You already knew the answer to your question when you asked it.

Sit down, think, and decide if you want this guy. If you do, don't hint, don't half-flirt, don't "lightly bring up the subject". Open your goddamn mouth and speak. Clearly and succinctly. If you don't then this is an unhealthy relationship, and you need to be shed of it, one way or the other. You can't carry on this supposed "friendship" and expect to ever have a healthy romantic relationship with another man.

221bBakerStreet
16-06-06, 08:57 AM
I don't feel like editing that post again, so I'll just double-post my afterword.

Your entire question is dubious to begin with. You seek an answer to a problem that you don't even know the question to. There is no Deus Ex Machina to solve this that assumes no risk. You already knew the answer to your question when you asked it.

Sit down, think, and decide if you want this guy. If you do, don't hint, don't half-flirt, don't "lightly bring up the subject". Open your goddamn mouth and speak. Clearly and succinctly. If you don't then this is an unhealthy relationship, and you need to be shed of it, one way or the other. You can't carry on this supposed "friendship" and expect to ever have a healthy romantic relationship with another man.

Asked and answered. Fair enough.

Crunor
18-06-06, 09:19 AM
He went after you, and you turned him down. It's your turn to go after him, doesn't matter if you are old-fashioned or not. By the looks of it, it's pretty much what he's waiting for.

Gigabitch
18-06-06, 10:10 AM
Hey, 221bBS, I've got some advice: Stay the **** away from Roommate. I know you don't know me at all, but as close as a complete stranger can get to being a friend, I'm trying to be that now.

This is your own heart you're messing around with. Don't treat yourself like some kind of retard with emotional ADD. You know you don't want Roommate. If it were a legitimate attraction, it wouldn't be conveniently popping up just as you're trying to get the balls (not easy for us girls) to Confess.

Don't be so destructive. Not just self-destructive, but destructive. IMO, you look like an easy mark to Roommate right about now. Don't let him in your pants.

221bBakerStreet
18-06-06, 04:07 PM
Don't worry, Roommate is not trying to get into my pants, nor does he see me as an easy mark. I didn't mean to give everyone the impression that I am playing Best Friend and Roommate off of one another--that's not my style. Plus, neither of them is stupid, and it wouldn't even work if I tried. I hang out with Roommate mostly while BF is at work. We're all friends, and Roommate and I are NOT interested in one another at all. But, I do notice that it makes BF uncomfortable that we hang out without him. The truth is, if BF had his 'druthers, I'd never spend any time with anyone but him and my family. He doesn't appear to want me around ANYONE else, especially single guys. I can't help that, and I am NOT doing it to jerk him--OR me--around. I just can't live in his pocket.

Here's what I just wrote in my Journal--word for word. I edited out some names, but I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.


Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:24:01 AM

Dear Journal:


Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.


Okay, so I have Best Friend on my mind right now. I admit it.

We went to the beach last night. He got drunk and got involved in a bunch of drama with some other inebriated idiots we didn’t even know. Then he drove off away from them in a huff, got about 75 yards down the beach, and passed out in the front seat of his truck. I sat there and watched him snore for about 5 hours, then I still had to drive that great big truck of his all the way home (over 100 miles) this morning in the pouring rain while BF slept in the passenger seat. His performance for the trip was less than stellar, to say the least.

You know, I am still thinking hard about any plans I make for any possible future concerning him. Just when I start thinking he hung the moon and he’s the man of my dreams, he pulls some dumb shit that makes me wanna run for the hills so fast my feet would be kicking my own ass.

When we got back to his house, this morning about 11:30, I took a bath at his house while he crashed out for a while, because he had to leave for work at 1:30. Then I hung around to wake him up at 1:00, and then when he left he suggested I stay there and go to sleep in his bed.

He just bought a new bed set (new sheets, pillowcases and comforter), so I did. When he was on his way home from work about 11:30, he called me and told me to clear out of his bed so he could go to sleep when he got home. I admit that hurt my feelings for several reasons. First of all, it’s not like he and I have never shared a bed before. It bothers me that he may have thought I was trying to have sex with him--I wasn’t. Secondly, what, he can let Dogface sleep in his bed the other night, but I can’t? Thirdly, I just didn’t feel like going home. In fact, I am sitting at IHOP--happily alone--as I type this.

After he told me to get out of his bed, I told him I would just go ahead and clear out of his apartment and get out of the way since I figured he had to be exhausted. He said he wasn’t THAT tired, and that if I was there when he got home, he would stay up for a while and hang out with me.

I left before he got home, and he was less than 10 minutes away when we hung up.

It bothers me that he wanted me out of his bed, but not THAT much. It’s puzzling, but the idea that he finds me repulsive somehow is completely negated by the fact that Dogface was welcome there several nights ago. Mostly, I have to admit, I am totally put off by his behavior at the beach last night, and I think I just may need a few days alone. And it also bothers me that when he can’t find me for the next few days, he is going to tell himself that I wanted to have sex with him and he turned me down.

And what’s crazy is, I am finally starting to figure this whole thing out with him. It's not nearly so confusing when you learn to watch for patterns. He's as predicatble as a grandfather clock. For instance, take what happened on the beach last night--we were just hanging out with these guys we met on the beach; older dudes (40-ish) who had rented a beach house with their families. Two out of three of the men definitely thought I was cool. None of them much cared for BF, though none of them actually said so. BF mentioned to me early in the evening that he thought they didn’t like him, and I agreed that it seemed that way to me, as well.

I should have known from that moment on that the night would go badly. Historically, and with 100% accuracy, when BF feels like someone doesn’t like him, he goes out of his way to make sure they don’t. And these guys were no exception. Plus, when BF is drunk, it gets a LOT worse. It didn’t occur to me until this morning that when I had agreed with BF that our new “friends” didn’t seem to care for him, he had assumed I KNEW they didn’t and that they had actually said so to me (they didn’t!), because at least one of the men was talking to me all night. I think BF thought me and that guy were laughing at him together all night. (I was clear about correcting that misconception over breakfast this morning as well--I would NEVER do that!) That, plus the liquor, equaled HULK SMASH!!! from BF last night. The only puzzling part about it in retrospect is why I didn’t know it was coming.

So realizing that, it’s a pretty simple jump to figure out that BF cares very much how I perceive him, and also that he thinks that I am not interested in dating him, so that, in general, he will always seem to be first to turn ME down.

Realizing that, it’s another short jump to how I could probably get out of the Friend Zone. But my question now, as always has been whether or not I SHOULD. Scenes like last night make me dangerously apprehensive about moving forward.

Crunor
19-06-06, 01:32 AM
You need to tell him what you feel, he might be thinking you are just teasing him, or that you will just turn him down again.

vashti
19-06-06, 04:46 AM
Dear Journal:


Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.


.

Isn't that a song by Alanis Morisette?

Blix
19-06-06, 06:47 AM
Here's what I just wrote in my Journal--word for word. I edited out some names, but I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.


Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:24:01 AM

Dear Journal:


Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.

You can see links before reply

Hahahah. It is by Alanis. Way to plagerize!

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 07:51 AM
YES, I wrote the lyrics to Alanis Morissette's "Uninvited" in my Journal. I frequently quote lyrics that portray how I am feeling. I assumed everyone who read it would know I was quoting LYRICS, not trying to pass it off as anything I wrote. That song was on the Top 20 for weeks. It's not exactly a secret.

Blix
19-06-06, 07:54 AM
Well then at least credit her. I don't listen to songs like that and I'm sure many other people don't. Plus by saying "This is from my journal word for word" it seems like you are implying you wrote it.

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 08:51 AM
Well then at least credit her. I don't listen to songs like that and I'm sure many other people don't. Plus by saying "This is from my journal word for word" it seems like you are implying you wrote it.

~Blix


Most people know that song already AND who sings it, and the ones who don't, someone will tell them. If you didn't know the song and assumed no one else did either, that's on YOU. You say I should credit her, I say you should've ASKED me first where I got the song from rather than assuming I was stealing it, and flapping your jaw accordingly. So I guess we'll agree to disagree. It's MY Journal, I'll write what I want in it.

Blix
19-06-06, 08:56 AM
It definately implyed YOU had written it by saying "word for word".

Plus you say your creative side. What in the hell is creative about taking someone's song, changing a few words, and writing it in your journal?

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 09:16 AM
It definately implyed YOU had written it by saying "word for word".

Plus you say your creative side. What in the hell is creative about taking someone's song, changing a few words, and writing it in your journal?

~Blix

My creative side? What the hell are you talking about??? I never said anything about any creative side.

I never claimed to be creative, and I also didn't change one single word of that song. I quoted it bizzactly the way she sings it. What are you talking about????

On second thought, never mind. If anyone ELSE has any useful thoughts or further advice about my actual Journal entry and the story therein, please feel free to share them.

BF will be home from work in four hours, and he's gonna be calling me directly to hang out with him. I'd like to hear someone's objective opinion on the way the evening should go. One of my girlfriends has already advised me to run, don't walk away from BF. I don't think that's the right answer, but I have NO idea what the right answer IS. I need to do SOMETHING proactive tonight, but I am unsure what, exactly.

This afternoon, my 7 yo son looked at me and said, "Mommie, [BF] sure takes good care of you, doesn't he? I'm glad he's your friend because he won't ever let anything bad happen to you."

And you know what? The kid is right.

Blix
19-06-06, 09:22 AM
I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.

Okay how is altering a song a little and putting it into your journal "using the other side of your brain". I read it as creativity, but still.

~Blix

Blix
19-06-06, 09:24 AM
It isn't word for word according to the lyrics I posted. Maybe they're a bit off and yours are right.

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 09:45 AM
I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.

I meant, that my mind is almost split down the middle on how to proceed in THIS situation (the one this whole thread is about). I had named some reasons for one side of my brain ("Date Him"), I wanted to show my advice-givers some of the OTHER side ("Don't Date Him") for the first time by posting a not-so-flattering story about BF. The two halves of my brain were meant to illustrate indecisiveness, not any sort of creativity.

This thread is ONLY about me and BF. I am NOT using it to try to display any poetry, fictional stories, or charcoal-on-canvas drawings of my childhood home. I am not now, nor was I ever, interested in wasting the time of anyone reading this thread with unrelated "Creativity" of mine. That song was mentioned here ONLY because it conveyed how I was feeling about BF at that time.


Okay how is altering a song a little and putting it into your journal "using the other side of your brain". I read it as creativity, but still.

~Blix

Dude, you've got to figure out the rest on your own. I've helped you all I can. And this is the last time I will say this--I put that song in my Journal WORD FOR WORD the way she sings it. I didn't change it, not ONE SINGLE SYLLABLE.

Blix
19-06-06, 09:56 AM
Here's what I just wrote in my Journal--word for word. I edited out some names, but I wanted to share the OTHER half of my brain with you guys.


Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:24:01 AM

Dear Journal:


Like anyone would be, I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot-blooded woman, I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you’re not allowed, you’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight

Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve
Must be somewhat heart-telling to watch upon me, Shepherd
But you, you’re not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

Like any uncharted territory, I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like you have experienced love like mine before
But this! - Is not allowed
You’re uninvited
An unfortunate slight.

I don’t think you unworthy -
I need a moment to deliberate.


You can see links before reply

Like anyone would be
I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot blooded woman
I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you're not allowed
You're uninvited
An unfortunate slight


Must be strangely exciting
To watch the stoic squirm
Must be somewhat heartening
To watch shepard meet shepard
But you're not allowed
You're uninvited
An unfortunate slight


Like any uncharted territory
I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like
You have experienced like mine before
But this is not allowed
You're uninvited
An unfortunate slight


I don't think you unworthy
I need a moment to deliberate

You did change a few. That's besides the point, though. Sense you weren't plagiarizing it's nit picking.

By the other half of your brain I thought you were referring to the more literal sense of the right side governing creativity and intelligence.

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 09:57 AM
Oh wait, in that one line where I wrote:


Must be strangely exciting to watch the stoic swerve

There is a chance she may have said "squirm" instead of "swerve", but I listened as best I could (the song was actually playing while I typed it!) and couldn't tell for sure. But in this case, both words convey pretty much the same idea, so it doesn't really matter.

I didn't click the link you posted, so I don't know what is written there on that line, or any other. Other than that one word I'm still undecided on, the song is written word for word as it was sung. NOTHING was changed by me.

Blix
19-06-06, 10:03 AM
Read my post again, I revised it.

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 10:11 AM
[

You did change a few. That's besides the point, though. Sense you weren't plagiarizing it's nit picking.

By the other half of your brain I thought blah blah blah.

~Blix

Basically, what you are saying is, you were wrong. You misread what I said very clearly, but rather than ASKING what I meant because you didn't understand, you assumed you knew. Then you wanted to be the first one to tell me off about it because you thought you knew something I didn't and wanted to "catch me" with my pants down. You posted something with ha ha ha in it, and calling me a name, when what you SHOULD have posted was a QUESTION.

You were wrong. You thought you knew, but you didn't. Next time ask questions first and ha ha ha later, Jackass.

Oh, and THAT--was 100% completely written by ME.

Blix
19-06-06, 10:18 AM
Congratulations. I suppose you'd want a cookie now, don't you. I was wrong. Though you didn't say it very clearly, as Vashti noticed it, too.

You saying word for word from my journal DID imply that you wrote it. You did not credit Alanis therefore it does appear to be plagerism.

The other side of my brain may be clear to you but not to everyone else. I had no doubt that you were talking about creativity, though I was wrong.

If you had said that song by Alanis Moresette really illustrates my feelings/point/whatever then it would have made sense. You saying you wrote it in your journal seemed like you were getting out your feelings by your own creativity. Not like some Lloyd Dobler. Usually that's what journals are for, not rewriting songs.

~Blix

Ellynn
19-06-06, 10:21 AM
Wow, who knew that lyrics w/personal touches could cause such drama!

Kinda reminds me of when this one person sent me a private message telling me to stop using "...." and start using periods. It's so much fun to be criticized by someone who has no clue who you are and suddenly jumps to the conclusion you do that because you "must be slow or something." :P

Blix
19-06-06, 10:25 AM
Wow, who knew that lyrics w/personal touches could cause such drama!

Lol, there weren't even any personal touches... that's particially why it makes little to no sense.

~Blix

Ellynn
19-06-06, 10:31 AM
Lol, there weren't even any personal touches... that's particially why it makes little to no sense.

~Blix


So, big deal. She quoted a song and she forgot to credit the artist! So, sue her! Its a freakin forum, not a high school paper she's handing in and plagerizing! There are alot of songs out there that have meaning to me too by just listening to the lyrics. Honestly I could care less if she wrote them, Alanis Morrisette did, or Mick fvcking Jagger! The point is that they mean something to her. So, just back off and stop being so quick to assume things about people you don't even know!

Blix
19-06-06, 10:37 AM
Right, because that will ever happen in our world. People assume things immediately just by learning someone’s race/religion/age/sex etc.

If she had been plagiarizing I would have cared, though she wasn't. I was wrong. I've admitted that. Though I still will and do think it's stupid, it's her journal, though.

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
19-06-06, 11:48 AM
Right, because that will ever happen in our world. People assume things immediately just by learning someone’s race/religion/age/sex etc.

If she had been plagiarizing I would have cared, though she wasn't. I was wrong. I've admitted that. Though I still will and do think it's stupid, it's her journal, though.

~Blix


=)) Dude, you're REALLY reaching now.

You were wrong. You should have ASKED like Vashti did, but you thought you knew. And you didn't. Let it go and stfu. You're just making a fool of yourself now. Chasing down obscure, unrelated points, and nit-picking about stupid stuff is not gonna change your status from 'Wrong' to 'Right'. Bottom line, you called me a liar and a thief when you had no idea what you were talking about. You were so intent on yanking down MY pants in front of everyone that you didn't bother securing your OWN pants first. Now you're trying to cover it up by bringing up worldwide profiling and stereotypes, and calling my Journal stupid like you know anything about it??? That is SO pathetic, I might cry if I wasn't laughing so hard.

I'd LOVE to get back on our original subject....

Blix
19-06-06, 12:05 PM
I've ALREADY admitted I was wrong. Laugh as you will, I really couldn't give a shit.

I'll embarrass myself, too! I'll continue talking! You're a bigger person than me, also. You're the one who keeps telling me I was wrong though I've admitted to that.

Me talking about stereotypes wasn't even in reply to you.

the song was irrelevant anyway. I guess you were just feeling the moment or something.

Oh, you're a great person, and I suck. I lost horribly and I can't even pull my pants back up.

I'm quick to judge, so sue me. I guess writing lyrics to a song was sensitive or something to you. Beats me. I hope you had fun though, wipe your tears now, I'm going to sleep.

~Blix

Zero Interrupt
19-06-06, 12:16 PM
Wow. I miss a lot when I go to my parents' place to do laundry.

vashti
19-06-06, 12:41 PM
Hmm... I thought exactly the same thing Blix did, so I can obviously see why he was thinking what he did. Still, I am glad I missed all the melodrama. :)

221bBakerStreet
22-06-06, 01:39 PM
Well, if anyone is interested, here is my current status report.

Since that beach incident Friday/Saturday, I have pretty much been keeping away from BF. Not unfriendly, and not totally gone, but just not around much. I've had to not answer my door and my phone dozens of times, but I think it's working out. When I hang out with Roommate, I usually just make myself scarce before BF gets home from work, and I just don't answer the countless calls from BF, or the doorbell when I know it's him. A couple of times, he has kind of tricked me--came over under the guise of "dropping off/picking up" Roommate to/from my apartment--and hung out until he had to leave for work. I have been friendly to him every single time I've had an exchange with him. But I usually excuse myself as soon as it's decently possible.

Tonight, I was over at his apartment hanging out with Roommate, and BF came home from work about an hour early. He had a girl with him, one of the other servers from the restaurant he works at. And she was pretty, really cool, and smart. Roommate told me she spent the night in BF's room last night, and I expect she will again, tonight.

It looks like the separation is working out for him, whether he likes it or not. It appears I made the right decision. If he can make a go of a relationship with this chick, then it will be a LOT easier to get out of this.

It's time to move on.

Ellynn
22-06-06, 02:46 PM
Ok, if this is something you REALLY want to do (moving on that is), then your doing the best thing by spending less time with him.

If he truly does have feelings for you, hopefully in time he will realize that no matter what girl he brings home, shes not you. And maybe then, he will make his move.

But, I understand why your doing what your doing. Sometimes friendship is too damn important to mess up with a relationship. But, Im glad to see you moving on and trying to spend more time apart and more time with other people.

221bBakerStreet
23-06-06, 02:15 AM
Ellynn, I appreciate your words of encouragement. But I posted on here, several days ago, that I would either date him or lose him. There is no third option.

There'll be no Best-Friendship nor anything else but "Normal" acquaintenceship. From now on, he gets the same treatment any other friend would get.

First of all, I am still not sure he is not using this chick to make me jealous, or "show me" in some way. I find it strange that he has worked with her for 6 months and never paid any attention to her at all. Then, literally, the day he realized I was backing away from him, he started hanging out with her, almost nonstop.

I could easily turn his head from this girl, and I have, without even trying. A couple of nights ago, he came home and I was in his room running anti-spyware software on his computer (I do that regularly). He came and laid on his bed and talked loudly to Co-Worker on his phone. I said nothing, but I was clearly waiting for the software to finish so I could leave. Then, when the clean-up program I was running was almost done (it was Spybot S&D; anyone familiar with it knows that you can see it's progress from across the room!), he suddenly interrupted her in the middle of a sentence and said he had to go, then hung up. He followed me outside, downstairs, and out to my car, trying to get me to hang around.

I left anyway. Then when I got home, he kept pushing the "I'm on the phone with this girl" Act. Well, here is the Y! Messenger conversation we had after I got home. (Disclaimer: BF and I often communicate with each other via song lyrics. Or, sometimes we just type out the words while they play (it's the equivalent of singing along). Neither of us is trying to pretend we WROTE these lyrics that are quoted here!) I am including the whole thing. Anyone, please feel free to tell me what, exactly, went on here? Does anyone see the same thing here that I see, or am I a complete nutter?


Me (6/20/2006 1:12:40 AM): let me know if your comp runs any faster, or if there are still the same number of those pop-ups
BF (6/20/2006 1:12:47 AM): why did you bail i wanted to hang out tonight
Me (6/20/2006 1:13:14 AM): i worked on it hard tonight, but when i left there were still some popups. about 1/4 of the number there WERE, but i wanted ZERO
BF (6/20/2006 1:13:19 AM): no there are less pop ups but it keeps kicking me out of the places i am going online
Me (6/20/2006 1:13:27 AM): what do you mean?
Me (6/20/2006 1:13:33 AM): like you click a link and it doesn't open?
BF (6/20/2006 1:13:40 AM): i went to myspace and i was there for like 5 minutes
BF (6/20/2006 1:13:46 AM): it kicked me off
BF (6/20/2006 1:14:06 AM): i went to Roommates website got half way through reading and got kicked off
Me (6/20/2006 1:14:15 AM): oh--well that might just be cause your comp is a POS.
Me (6/20/2006 1:14:16 AM): wait--
BF (6/20/2006 1:14:17 AM): i went to the bulletin board and got kicked off
Me (6/20/2006 1:14:26 AM): define "kicked off" of a web page....?
BF (6/20/2006 1:15:05 AM): the page went off the screen and closed
Me (6/20/2006 1:15:50 AM): well, the only thing i can think it might be is--double click that little red and black K in the bottom right of the screen to disable it
Me (6/20/2006 1:15:53 AM): it will turn grey
Me (6/20/2006 1:16:06 AM): that is a popup blocker, but i don't know why it would dump out windows on you
Me (6/20/2006 1:16:35 AM): i mean dump you out of IE windows
Me (6/20/2006 1:16:37 AM): that's bullshit
BF (6/20/2006 1:20:09 AM): what the hell is going on with this damn computer
Me (6/20/2006 1:20:48 AM): don't know
Me (6/20/2006 1:20:52 AM): what's it doing?
BF (6/20/2006 1:22:44 AM): i just went back to myspace and it kicked me out again
Me (6/20/2006 1:23:23 AM): i'm trying to figure out what would cause a comp to keep dumping windows
Me (6/20/2006 1:23:33 AM): the only think i can come up with is a virus, BF
Me (6/20/2006 1:23:45 AM): because it's not supposed to do that
BF (6/20/2006 1:24:48 AM): i may be but **** it i am getting a new computer on saturday
Me (6/20/2006 1:25:11 AM): yeah but don't you want all the shit off of THAT one when you get a new one?
BF (6/20/2006 1:26:10 AM): most of it i suppose
Me (6/20/2006 1:26:56 AM): any idea how?
BF (6/20/2006 1:28:51 AM): how what
Me (6/20/2006 1:29:12 AM): nevermind
BF (6/20/2006 1:32:31 AM): this girl is nuts
Me (6/20/2006 1:32:52 AM): who, me?
BF (6/20/2006 1:32:56 AM): she is trying to get me to assess her on the damn phone
BF (6/20/2006 1:32:59 AM): no casey
BF (6/20/2006 1:33:05 AM): from work
Me (6/20/2006 1:39:14 AM): well, i will try to figure out what's wrong with your comp next time i come over there
Me (6/20/2006 1:39:36 AM): sounds like you're busy talking to your friend
Me (6/20/2006 1:39:51 AM): i think i may be able to fix it, but i will see. later
Me (6/20/2006 1:40:06 AM): gator
BF (6/20/2006 1:40:48 AM): later
BF (6/20/2006 1:42:11 AM): she is a very disturbed person.....i think
BF (6/20/2006 1:59:24 AM): she is now telling me her life story
BF (6/20/2006 1:59:50 AM): what are you doing
BF (6/20/2006 2:00:07 AM): i am uninterested in this
Me (6/20/2006 2:00:26 AM): sometimes i feel like something is gone here, something is wrong here
Me (6/20/2006 2:00:29 AM): i don't belong here
Me (6/20/2006 2:00:35 AM): sometimes i feel like a stranger in town
Me (6/20/2006 2:00:39 AM): and i've lost what i found
Me (6/20/2006 2:00:44 AM): it'll all turn around?
Me (6/20/2006 2:02:01 AM): in a little while i'll be thinking about you
Me (6/20/2006 2:02:09 AM): in a little i'll still be here without you
BF (6/20/2006 2:02:10 AM): i am sure you will
Me (6/20/2006 2:02:18 AM): you never gave me a reason to doubt you
BF (6/20/2006 2:02:23 AM): i know
Me (6/20/2006 2:02:26 AM): in a little while i'll be thinking about you, baby
BF (6/20/2006 2:02:35 AM): yea yea yea i know
Me (6/20/2006 2:02:37 AM): i'll be thinking about you, baby, baby, baby....

BF (6/20/2006 2:08:05 AM): i got you
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:05 AM): sail on down the line, bout a half or mile or so
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:10 AM): and i don't really wanna know
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:14 AM): where you're going
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:21 AM): maybe once or twice you see
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:25 AM): time after time i tried
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:29 AM): to hold on to what we got but
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:32 AM): now you're going
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:41 AM): and i don't mind about the things you're gonna say, lord
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:45 AM): i gave all my money and my time
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:50 AM): i know it's shame
Me (6/20/2006 2:08:56 AM): but i'm giving you back your name
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:03 AM): yes i'll be on my way
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:05 AM): i won't be back to stay
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:14 AM): i guess i'll move along, i'm looking for a good time
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:31 AM): sail on down the line
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:36 AM): ain't it funny how the time can go?
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:43 AM): all my friends say they told me so, but it doesn't matter
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:47 AM): it was plain to see that a
Me (6/20/2006 2:09:56 AM): small town boy like me just wasn't your cup of tea
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:01 AM): i was wishful thinking
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:07 AM): i gave you my heart, and i tried to make you happy
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:12 AM): but you gave me nothing in return
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:17 AM): you know it ain't so hard to say
BF (6/20/2006 2:10:17 AM): ok she hung up
BF (6/20/2006 2:10:20 AM): finally
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:23 AM): but would you please just go away?
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:31 AM): i've thrown away the blues
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:37 AM): i'm tired of being used
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:40 AM): i want everyone to know
Me (6/20/2006 2:10:44 AM): i'm looking for a good time
BF (6/20/2006 2:10:49 AM): with hands of leather and a face of gold lets get naked and i will steal your soul
BF (6/20/2006 2:10:51 AM): lol
BF (6/20/2006 2:11:39 AM): its times like these we learn to live again
BF (6/20/2006 2:11:48 AM): its times like these we give and give again
BF (6/20/2006 2:11:58 AM): its times like these we learn to love again
BF (6/20/2006 2:12:36 AM): six days on the road and i am gonna make it home tonight
BF (6/20/2006 2:12:58 AM): what are you doing
BF (6/20/2006 2:13:09 AM): i guess no hanging out tonight eh?
BF (6/20/2006 2:13:44 AM): did i interupt your moment
BF (6/20/2006 2:14:32 AM): are you still there
BF (6/20/2006 2:14:36 AM): hello
BF (6/20/2006 2:15:07 AM): ok well..........uummmmmmmmm
Me (6/20/2006 2:15:47 AM): alonzo declared that he must reach to heaven forever
Me (6/20/2006 2:15:56 AM): oh wait--you can't have that song! It's only MINE!
BF (6/20/2006 2:16:14 AM): untrue
BF (6/20/2006 2:16:42 AM): i will be right back i gotta pee


I logged off of Messenger before he came back from the bathroom.

Ellynn
23-06-06, 05:27 AM
Haha, your not the only one who sings lyrics to your guy friends. :) I know what thats all about!

He doesn't seem all that interested in Casey. He acted like he was bored with her, but yet very insistant with hanging out with you. The good thing though is that you are backing off. It seems to bother him though. He will either get over it, or will pursue you again.

I know there is no inbetween. Its either all or nothing. But, its good you are putting your foot down. If he's not serious about you, then you need to find a guy who is.

Gigabitch
23-06-06, 06:22 AM
Babe, you have no business in his room. Stay out of his room.

Ellynn
23-06-06, 07:47 AM
Babe, you have no business in his room. Stay out of his room.


She has a point. If you are trying to distance yourself from him, why are you in his room? I know you were installing popupblockers on his computer etc, but honestly, the whole point of distance is to have very little contact.

Meaning, you don't go over to his house, (especially end up in his room), you keep your conversations vague, and he doesn't come over to your house.

Right now your still hanging out with him, but ignoring him when you feel like it. Your still in the routine in ways. So why not bump things up a bit and stop going over there?

I mean you said yourself theres no inbetween. Its either all or nothing. So show him that.

221bBakerStreet
23-06-06, 08:13 AM
Babe, you have no business in his room. Stay out of his room.

I can't--My dog lives in there!

vashti
23-06-06, 08:15 AM
You are making excuses.

221bBakerStreet
23-06-06, 08:41 AM
She has a point. If you are trying to distance yourself from him, why are you in his room? I know you were installing popupblockers on his computer etc, but honestly, the whole point of distance is to have very little contact.

Meaning, you don't go over to his house, (especially end up in his room), you keep your conversations vague, and he doesn't come over to your house.

Right now your still hanging out with him, but ignoring him when you feel like it. Your still in the routine in ways. So why not bump things up a bit and stop going over there?

I mean you said yourself theres no inbetween. Its either all or nothing. So show him that.

I know this sounds bizarre, but I am distancing myself from HIM, not his apartment. I am still friends with Roommate, and I still hang out with him. Plus, like I said, I am still responsible for our puppy when BF is at work, and her crate is in BF's room. Besides--and I SWEAR this is God's honest truth--I broke my leg three weeks ago, and I have a cast. Their bathroom is bigger than mine, and is the only place I have enough room to take a bath with my cast outside the tub.

I am not trying to get rid of the guy completely. I talk to him from time to time on Y! Messenger (again, today!), and sometimes for a minute when I wait too late to leave his house and I run into him, but the time we spend together now is nothing like it was a week ago. I think I am making progress. But my goal here is not to completely cut off all contact with him; only to make it a more reasonably normal casual friendship.

He does, however, seem to be taking this whole process pretty hard. He calls me all day long, and even comes over and knocks on the door when I don't answer. Today, on Y! Messenger (pretty much the only medium of communication I've not cut off completely!) he was demanding to know why I didn't want to be around him anymore. He's hurt, angry, and bewildered about what he's done wrong. This is brutal.

BF has his only day off from work tomorrow (Friday), and has been insisting that I go out of town with him, on a trip about 100 miles away. To be honest, I was thinking about going with him (we would leave around 10 a.m. and get home in the wee hours of the morning). Bad idea?

vashti
23-06-06, 08:46 AM
You are still making excuses. I am sure you would find a way to bathe if he did not live in that apartment.

On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying the drama?

221bBakerStreet
23-06-06, 08:49 AM
You are still making excuses. I am sure you would find a way to bathe if he did not live in that apartment.

On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying the drama?


0.5, on a scale where 1 sucks, and 10 is orgasmic.

The only reason I give it half a point instead of a flat ZERO, is because the only thing that sucks WORSE than this is what I was doing BEFORE I ever posted on this site. Believe me, this is no fun at all. But neither was THAT.

Crunor
23-06-06, 09:30 AM
Why don't you just tell him you like him in a non-friend way? Women...

Ellynn
23-06-06, 11:23 AM
So, now you want to go away with him on a day trip? Is this because your feeling guilty for avoiding him more lately? Or maybe cause he's wondering whats up and is feeling hurt?

Maybe instead of saying how you feel about him(which I know your afraid to do), why not explain to him your other reasons for distancing yourself from him?

Explain to him that you are looking for a relationship just like he is (with other people). Explain to him that because he is around so much, it kinda makes it hard to meet men that aren't intimidated by him being around or get the wrong idea. Explain to him that even though you value his friendship, you want to settle down someday, and the only way to do this is by having some space to be able to find someone to do that with.

I mean by saying this your not at all telling him he should pursue you, but it will let him know WHAT you ARE looking for and that being super close w/ him is NOT helping.
IF he IS interested, then maybe this will give him something to think about. IF he ISN'T then hopefully he is decent enough to back off so that you can be happy. IF he is a true friend & NOT interested in you for a relationship, he will back off and let you live your life so that you can find that happiness.


You do sound like you are making excuses to be around him. I mean of course because you like him ALOT! But if your gonna make a decision, your gonna have to do it all the way! Halfway is not gonna cut it! He will never get the picture, if you keep this up.
Its true that if you wanted to distance yourself somewhat, you would NOT shower in his place even if it is more convienent. (Are you hoping he will catch you coming out of the shower or something? :P) And you both have a dog together huh? That is understandable, but wow you guys are pretty darn close to have a pet together. Thats something usually people who date do.

And your friends with his roommate. Ok, that makes sense WHY you are hanging around. But still, instead of hanging around his place, why not invite the roommate over more or something to hang out. Kinda hard to break a habit if your constantly around your friend.

I'm not implying you should cut him off, but you still seem pretty close with him. If you want it to end up as a normal healthy friendship, you need to cut down on the contact.

I know secretly your thrilled at his increase of attention towards you since you made this decision. You cannot deny that! But, you need to stick to your guns. Its the only way things will ever change for the better.

Ellynn
23-06-06, 11:24 AM
Why don't you just tell him you like him in a non-friend way? Women...


We tried to get her to do that. She decided she doesn't want to. I agree that would probably end the drama the easiest way, but well you can give advice and people either take it or they don't.

Blix
23-06-06, 03:22 PM
Have you given him an altimatem? Like just end it here and now?

Either BF & GF (Yes) or never see eachother again (No). Otherwise you're keeping yourself in this situation.

Oh and if he does say no one of you will have to take the dog and you'll have to give up "Roommate".

Also, do you really want to be around the Roommate person, anyway? It just seems you're using him as kind of an inbetween.

Just finish it...

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
23-06-06, 03:27 PM
Well, it isn't that I refuse to take advice, simply that I am not sure spilling my guts to him at this point is the right thing for either of us. How unkind it would be for me to express romantic interest in him, date him for 2 months, and then dump him because I suddenly can't stand a bunch of stuff I've known about him all along??? Nothing I could do would break his heart more than that. Before I start something I can't stop, I want to be sure. And I care very, very much about hurting his feelings/breaking his heart.

Also, I don't particularly WANT to go out of town with him in the morning, but he keeps insisting on it, and I couldn't think of a good enough reason to say no. I've pretty much decided against the trip, as of right now, though.

And believe it or not, I don't enjoy drama or attention. I do, however, miss the hell out of my best friend. And I admit to being happy to see that he misses me too, but I already knew he would. However, I could honestly do without his constant insistance that I be everywhere HE is. I just need some damn space. Is that so horrible?

OF COURSE I am not hoping he will catch me coming out of the shower. That's gross. He would never invade my privacy that way, and besides, I am usually at his house when no one else is home (no one, that is, but the dog!). Whether or not I am making excuses to see him, well, that's arguable. I honestly don't know, and I will do some soul-searching and be honest with myself to find out. But if I am, I am honestly not doing it conciously.

The last two nights, I have run into him at his apartment because he has been coming home from work an hour earlier than usual. (He normally gets home at midnight on the dot, and he normally calls on his way home, either Roommate or (usually) me and lets me know where he is and how long till he gets here. Lately, he's not been calling anyone, and he's been coming home at like 11 p.m.) I just excuse myself as quickly as possible when that happens, but I never make it out fast enough to not need 6 or 7 excuses for why I don't want to hang around or go [fill in the blank] with him. You guys saw that Messenger conversation. He was still asking me to hang out with him AFTER I'd gone home already! Imagine what it was like when I was still over there!

This evening, BF invited (then asked, then insisted, then DEMANDED!) me to go hang out with him and listen to some music--something we used to do often and religiously. I politely declined, so he went without me (Him and Casey!). Later on, Roommate asked me to give him a ride out to where they were. I did. Was that an excuse to see BF? I don't think it was, but I will give it a think. (btw, I found out tonight that Casey is only 18, and that neither BF nor Roommate would ever touch her. Doesn't change anything for me, but I thought I would mention it.)

My aim now, is to try and get this friendship back down out of the clouds and onto the ground. I just need to put some brakes on right now. After that, I will figure out my next move when I get there. But damn, this is what I meant when I said it's tough to get away from him.

vashti
23-06-06, 10:44 PM
I think it is plain weird that you hang around his apartment when he is not there. Don't you have your own housing?

Blix
24-06-06, 03:57 AM
Well it seems kind of mean then that you're trying to break off ALL TIES. You are his best friend and I know that I need my best friend. Things just suck without them. You may not want to be his best friend but you are and really shouldn't just dump him like that.

It's just kind of messed up...

You should tell him that you want to be together and if he says no then tell him yuor time will be taken up prodominately by another guy who WILL take that space. Still, though, don't just dump him.

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
24-06-06, 04:10 AM
I think it is plain weird that you hang around his apartment when he is not there. Don't you have your own housing?

Of course I do.

I guess you're right about it being weird, and I never really thought about it that way. That's just the way it's "always" been. Well, not always. But I learned a few months ago that if I go over there, instead of them coming here, then I have control over what time I get to bed at night, and my apartment doesn't get trashed. And my bar stays stocked a lot longer this way, too.

Roommate is taking summer classes on campus, and he doesn't have a car. I LIVE practically on campus, so a lot of times after class, he just walks over here, and we hang out for a while, then I take him home, and we hang out there. Also, Roommate has a tendency to misplace his housekey; oftentimes I must let him into his own house.

Also, Roommate and BF were just good friends like a month ago; they only just moved in together, like a month ago. Ever since BF and I have had our pit bull, I have hung out at his house while he was at work. It's expected, and if I don't, I feel guilty. If I don't come over there, she will be home alone all day in a crate. It's different if I have something to do that night, but if I am just studying or watching a movie, why not do it over there so the baby can come out?

The dog may seem like an excuse, but at 7 months old, the Baby is already stronger than ME. In another 6 months, she'll be stronger than BF, too. And if she'd been spending 8-12 hours a day at home alone her whole life, and kept it up, she'd be no good to us or herself. If we don't socialize her well and get her under control NOW, we'll end up having to shoot her when she gets bigger.

And the baths over there are just a convenience, but I've only been doing that since I broke my leg (helping them move!). BF has spent many nights and showered over here many times, before. Matter fact, the more I think about it, the more I remember that even if I was at my OWN apartment when BF called and said he was on his way home from work, he would just come over here instead of going home, anyway. He always did.

btw, I just got off the phone with BF as I was typing this. I talked him into going out with Casey. I think this problem may soon solve itself, after all....

Ellynn
24-06-06, 04:48 AM
Thats cool you still want him as your best friend. Heck, even I have a best friend who is a male. But the difference is, is that he is gay. So it kinda eliminates any problems with any other males. Yes, he would get jealous over people stealing my attention back in the day, and it made me question why. But, I found out he felt like he was losing me as a friend, and not anything more. Trust me, I hoped he would change his mind (when we were alot younger) and decide to date girls again, even possibly me. I took a chance and told him how I felt, and he was flattered. But he told me theres just no way hes gonna change. I respected that, and our friendship even became better once I accepted that. So, we basically cleared that up once and for all. Things were alot better. He backed off more, and realized it was only fair to me to have a relationship.

I know my circumstances are a bit different and that your friend is straight, but I know how it is to really be into a friend and really care about him alot! Someone you can SHARE pretty much ANYTHING with. Its awesome. I would hate to see you throw that away because of feelings that you have. The only thing is that you still might have a chance, if you tell him.

I understand why now that you don't want to tell him how you feel. You feel that in a few months you will end up hurting him or losing interest. But, if this is how you honestly feel, you need to stick with it. Its good your encouraging him to date other people. He has that right you know. Even as much as it sometimes hurts you or you feel like the girl isn't good enough for him. Just like you have the right to pursue other men.

I understand why you don't want people over by you. But, would your friends really trash your place? What kind of friends are they if they would? I understand now about the dog, but then you have to set limits to what you all do with your best friend.

I still think you should explain to him why you are distancing yourself a bit from him. Tell him how you want to find someone and get into a relationship eventually. Also explain that him always being around might intimidate the guy. So, at least then you are being honest.

Zero Interrupt
24-06-06, 08:38 AM
Stop quoting love song lyrics with him, for chrissakes. He's obviously into you, and if you don't want to be with him, then stop sharing freaking love songs with him and leading him on. Give him the dog, or take it from him, because "just friends" don't share pets. They also don't shower in each other's baths, regardless of how convenient it may be. Don't work on his computer, tell him to hire a tech, and there is no valid excuse you can give to deny that recommendation.

You don't care one whit for this guy, it's obvious. Stop making his life hell.

Unless you DO care for him, in which case you, dear lady, are a selfish ****ing moron in the way you're handling things.

vashti
24-06-06, 09:12 AM
Someone had to say it.

221bBakerStreet
24-06-06, 01:49 PM
But what if I am not sure WHAT I want anymore. Am I not allowed to take some time alone to sort out my feelings before I make a move?

Blix
24-06-06, 11:24 PM
Has it occured to you to just tell him you want a week to yourself?

~Blix

221bBakerStreet
25-06-06, 12:57 AM
Has it occured to you to just tell him you want a week to yourself?

~Blix


BF (6/23/2006 3:34:59 PM): or i should say i would appreciate it if you would tell me what it is that has you upset with me.
Me (6/23/2006 3:35:22 PM): i'm not upset, BF
Me (6/23/2006 3:35:30 PM): will you please just leave me alone for a while?
Me (6/23/2006 3:35:36 PM): don't call me until i call you, okay?
BF (6/23/2006 3:35:51 PM): fine i will erase you number but i do need my key back
Me (6/23/2006 3:36:13 PM): i'm just asking for some space for a couple of days, BF
Me (6/23/2006 3:36:31 PM): please?
BF (6/23/2006 3:37:07 PM): if this is how youwant things to be, then ok, i remember the we cant be friends conversation, so i am glad you gave it another try, but it is not working so give me back the key and you do not have to worry about shit any more
Me (6/23/2006 3:37:29 PM): i will come find you when i want to talk to you
BF (6/23/2006 3:37:45 PM): dont bother
Me (6/23/2006 3:37:46 PM): just give me some time by myself right now
BF (6/23/2006 3:38:04 PM): that would take effort that you need for other things
Me (6/23/2006 3:38:38 PM): i've already put plenty of effort into you. a little more won't kill me. i will come find you in a few days, okay?Me (6/23/2006 3:38:42 PM): i just need some time alone
BF (6/23/2006 3:38:52 PM): like i said do not bother
Me (6/23/2006 3:38:54 PM): i will take the dog out while you're gone this weekend
Me (6/23/2006 3:39:00 PM): shut up
Me (6/23/2006 3:39:05 PM): drama queen
Me (6/23/2006 3:39:25 PM): everything is not about YOU
Me (6/23/2006 3:39:36 PM): have fun at Roommate's parent's thing
BF (6/23/2006 3:39:46 PM): no but this is
BF (6/23/2006 3:40:00 PM): and it has been for the last 6 months
BF (6/23/2006 3:40:01 PM): m
Me (6/23/2006 3:40:15 PM): what, Roommate's parent's anniversary?
Me (6/23/2006 3:40:21 PM): or about you?BF (6/23/2006 3:40:33 PM): OY
BF (6/23/2006 3:40:41 PM): you are not that damn dumb
Me (6/23/2006 3:40:59 PM): no, i just don't know what you are talking about with the 6 months thingBF (6/23/2006 3:41:12 PM): you have been tripping on me for the last few months and i want to know why
Me (6/23/2006 3:41:33 PM): i have not
Me (6/23/2006 3:41:47 PM): you're paranoid, and you always think i am conspiring against you with someone else
Me (6/23/2006 3:41:53 PM): they have pills that cure that, BFBF (6/23/2006 3:42:28 PM): you say shit and do not finish your sentences, when i ask you a straight question, you run in circles around it...you talk shit behind my back.....and then when i confront you about it you try to change the subject constantly
Me (6/23/2006 3:42:43 PM): what shit do i talk behind your back?BF (6/23/2006 3:42:45 PM): i do not need a pill i need you to give me straight answers
BF (6/23/2006 3:43:27 PM): you tell people how pissed off you are at me and then i ask you about it and you lie to me
Me (6/23/2006 3:43:33 PM): what people?BF (6/23/2006 3:43:38 PM): what is the point of that
BF (6/23/2006 3:43:42 PM): dont act stupid
Me (6/23/2006 3:43:52 PM): because the only person who could tell you that is Roommate
Me (6/23/2006 3:43:56 PM): anyone else is a liarBF (6/23/2006 3:43:59 PM): what are you so upset, pissed off, or mad about
BF (6/23/2006 3:44:24 PM): what the hell does Roommate have to do with this
BF (6/23/2006 3:44:40 PM): i am asking you a question, will you answer it
Me (6/23/2006 3:44:56 PM): just what i said: he's the only person i tell when i am pissed off at you. anyone else who told you i talked shit about you is a liarBF (6/23/2006 3:45:14 PM): WHAT ARE YOU UPSET OR PISSED OFF AT ME ABOUT....????
BF (6/23/2006 3:46:07 PM): look i understand that people in this town lie,, i do....but when your actions support what they say all i can do is assume until you tell me what the **** is going on
BF (6/23/2006 3:46:51 PM): what is it that i have done that has made you mad in the last say 2 months
BF (6/23/2006 3:47:01 PM): lists will be sufficient for now
Me (6/23/2006 3:47:17 PM): BF, stop it
Me (6/23/2006 3:47:22 PM): EVERYTHING IS NOT ABOUT YOU
Me (6/23/2006 3:47:34 PM): now will you please just give me a couple of days to myself???BF (6/23/2006 3:47:36 PM): no you are telling me that i have to drop my friend, then this is it....tell me
Me (6/23/2006 3:47:37 PM): PLEASE???
Me (6/23/2006 3:47:55 PM): drop your friend? wtf are you talking about?BF (6/23/2006 3:48:10 PM): fine you are pulling your same old shit....bye
Me (6/23/2006 3:48:19 PM): thank you
Me (6/23/2006 3:48:33 PM): i will call you and talk to you in a couple of days
Me (6/23/2006 3:48:40 PM): ttylBF (6/23/2006 3:48:46 PM): i probably wont answer
Me (6/23/2006 3:48:52 PM): i know where you live
Me (6/23/2006 3:48:56 PM): and where you work
Me (6/23/2006 3:49:00 PM): and where you hang out
Me (6/23/2006 3:49:10 PM): and where you keep your dirty drawers
Me (6/23/2006 3:49:17 PM): i can find YOU when i get readyBF (6/23/2006 3:49:48 PM): do what you think you need to, but there is no reason for you to come and find me
Me (6/23/2006 3:50:00 PM): but i will though
BF (6/23/2006 3:50:05 PM): whatever
Me (6/23/2006 3:50:13 PM): because i love you, and you know it
Me (6/23/2006 3:50:23 PM): you just need to learn to be patientBF (6/23/2006 3:50:26 PM): no you don’t you just want to cause me problems
Me (6/23/2006 3:50:27 PM): you can't rush everything
BF (6/23/2006 3:50:38 PM): and i do not understand why
Me (6/23/2006 3:50:52 PM): so? you have to UNDERSTAND every damn thing?
Me (6/23/2006 3:51:08 PM): don't you love me, too, BF?BF (6/23/2006 3:51:52 PM): but all i have asked you to do is answer simple questions and you choose to be a bitch about it...i am tired of this shit
Me (6/23/2006 3:52:07 PM): BF, if you love me too, please just give me what i need right now
Me (6/23/2006 3:52:19 PM): stop thinking about YOU, and let ME have what i need from you now
Me (6/23/2006 3:52:40 PM): pleaseBF (6/23/2006 3:53:13 PM): i am giving you what you need...a swift kick and a goodbye
Me (6/23/2006 3:53:38 PM): thank you
Me (6/23/2006 3:53:44 PM): i will call you in a few daysBF (6/23/2006 3:53:54 PM): you do not want me around, poof, there you go
Me (6/23/2006 3:54:03 PM): i DO want you around
Me (6/23/2006 3:54:10 PM): i told you i loved youBF (6/23/2006 3:54:11 PM): obviously
Me (6/23/2006 3:54:40 PM): and you love me too
Me (6/23/2006 3:55:18 PM): but i think you're self-centered and you're only thinking about how everything makes YOU feel
Me (6/23/2006 3:55:54 PM): and i am asking you to accept that it doesn't make sense
Me (6/23/2006 3:56:03 PM): and you don't understand, but do it anyway because i asked you toBF (6/23/2006 3:58:15 PM): no thats the thing you have not understood through this whole ****ing conversation...i have asked you over and over what is going on with you,,,you do not care enough about yourself to talk to me about it...and the parts that do involve me i want to know about.....i am tired of trying to help someone who keeps lying and double talking to avoid it....i am tired of hanging out with some one who does not want me around...
Me (6/23/2006 3:59:23 PM): this is not about YOU
Me (6/23/2006 3:59:26 PM): it's about MEBF (6/23/2006 3:59:47 PM): oh my god did you not just read what i wrote
Me (6/23/2006 3:59:59 PM): i love you, i NEED you, i want you around. i CLEARLY want you around all the timeBF (6/23/2006 4:00:18 PM): well sorry you have made it clear that you do not
Me (6/23/2006 4:00:20 PM): why do you think i am mad at you or that i don't want you around?BF (6/23/2006 4:01:34 PM): because you avoid me every chance you get...you make plans and break them just because i am going to be there....you tell other people that you are pissed at some thing i did....then i ask you about it and you flat out lie to me
Me (6/23/2006 4:02:37 PM): you're nuts. i know how to get rid of someone i don't want around me, i've been hanging out with you like every day for a year or more nowBF (6/23/2006 4:02:41 PM): these are problems that i am tired of.....and then you tell me constantly that you need a couple of days away....or i can not be friends with you anymore for dumb reasons, and you say things that make no sense and refuse to clarify
Me (6/23/2006 4:02:46 PM): that doesn't sound like someone i don't want to be around to ME
BF (6/23/2006 4:03:48 PM): ok so you hang with some one fora year and then then drop them like they are nothing, you think that is cool.....you think that by basically telling a friend to **** off..you gain something in yourself
BF (6/23/2006 4:03:52 PM): what the ****
Me (6/23/2006 4:04:01 PM): WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
Me (6/23/2006 4:04:14 PM): i just said, i want to spend a few days alone
Me (6/23/2006 4:04:25 PM): wtf is so damned hard about that????


.....to be continued on the next post.....

221bBakerStreet
25-06-06, 12:58 AM
BF (6/23/2006 4:04:25 PM): i am talking about the fact that i considered you a friend.....
BF (6/23/2006 4:04:53 PM): you decided the other day or a month ago or **** a year ago that you had some problem with me......
Me (6/23/2006 4:04:57 PM): i never told you to **** off
BF (6/23/2006 4:05:02 PM): you do not want to talk to me about.......
BF (6/23/2006 4:05:13 PM): and acted like you were a friend too.....
BF (6/23/2006 4:05:42 PM): and then now i need a couple of days....after avoiding said "friend" for nearly a week
Me (6/23/2006 4:05:50 PM): yeah
Me (6/23/2006 4:05:51 PM): so?
Me (6/23/2006 4:05:56 PM): why is that so horrible?
Me (6/23/2006 4:06:03 PM): don't you have friends you haven't seen in a week?BF (6/23/2006 4:06:05 PM): ok now you are getting what you want and you are bitching about it
Me (6/23/2006 4:06:23 PM): if [Old Friend From Grade School] doesn't come see you tomorrow, does that mean he told you to **** off?BF (6/23/2006 4:07:24 PM): thats not what you are doing,
BF (6/23/2006 4:09:03 PM): you need to go on and deal with your shit...sorry i wasted your time....and sorry for trying to talk to you about shit that was bothering you...i asked and you said nothing was bothering you...i asked and you said you were not upset about anything i did or said ...but now you need time away from your friends...ok take the time...and do not waste your time calling in a few days
Me (6/23/2006 4:10:00 PM): i'm sorry you don't care any more about my feelings than that, BFMe (6/23/2006 4:10:09 PM): i've always been pretty careful with YOURS
BF (6/23/2006 4:10:49 PM): you are sorry that do not care about your feelings....after all the time that i have spent trying to talk to you about them.....and trying to help you deal with shit in your life
BF (6/23/2006 4:10:55 PM): yea sorry does not cut it
Me (6/23/2006 4:11:30 PM): so, basically, you want to help me the way it suits YOU?Me (6/23/2006 4:12:15 PM): i can either follow your Rules For Friendship, or i can hit the road?
BF (6/23/2006 4:12:25 PM): no i want you to tell me all the shit that is going on...that you are so ashamed to talk to me about apparently.....instead of you running off
Me (6/23/2006 4:13:15 PM): well, i need to run off right now, BF. i can't talk to you about it now, i can't do what YOU want me to do. i'm sorryBF (6/23/2006 4:13:46 PM): ok then that is it....your choice....forget my number
Me (6/23/2006 4:13:49 PM): i have to deal with this the way it's best for ME
BF (6/23/2006 4:13:49 PM): late
Me (6/23/2006 4:13:51 PM): not for YOU
BF (6/23/2006 4:14:02 PM): ok at this point i do not givea **** anymore
Me (6/23/2006 4:14:06 PM): nice
Me (6/23/2006 4:14:08 PM): thanksBF (6/23/2006 4:14:08 PM): your feelings mean nothing now
BF (6/23/2006 4:14:10 PM): bye
Me (6/23/2006 4:14:45 PM): it's always nice to have a friend who cares about my feelings
Me (6/23/2006 4:14:54 PM): i can feel the warm fuzzy love
BF (6/23/2006 4:15:11 PM): your doing not mine
Me (6/23/2006 4:15:23 PM): i didn't just tell YOU to lose my number
Me (6/23/2006 4:15:33 PM): thanks for being there when i needed you mostBF (6/23/2006 4:15:56 PM): yea well i tried and you won!
BF (6/23/2006 4:16:08 PM): congrats on your decisions
Me (6/23/2006 4:17:48 PM): BF, in my old age, i have learned that friends are not easy to come by
Me (6/23/2006 4:18:03 PM): i will come find you, and if you don't answer the phone, i will come wait on your porchBF (6/23/2006 4:18:12 PM): no but they are easy to throw away is that your new found theory
Me (6/23/2006 4:18:18 PM): and if you move, i will go to your mom's house in [Another Town]
Me (6/23/2006 4:18:36 PM): and if she moves, i will hunt down your dad and torture him until he tells me where you are
Me (6/23/2006 4:18:46 PM): and if you're in japan, i'll swim there if i have to
Me (6/23/2006 4:20:16 PM): and if you're at the center of the earth, i'll start digging
Me (6/23/2006 4:26:29 PM): how come nobody but me knows what LOVE is?

Zero Interrupt
25-06-06, 02:28 AM
Let me change that statement. You're BOTH selfish and stupid. What are you both, twelve, or something?

Blix
25-06-06, 02:34 AM
Let me change that statement. You're BOTH selfish and stupid. What are you both, twelve, or something?

Seconded.

Also he DID ask you what's wrong like 7 times and why you want to be away.

Just give him his damn key and get on with it.

~Blix

Ellynn
25-06-06, 02:36 AM
Yikes!

Why didn't you just tell him straight out what was truly bothering you instead of making all these excuses or changing the subject?

I think if anything, that was the time to be honest. Either way it looks like your gonna lose him now. So, why not at least give it your best shot and be HONEST with him for a change, the way you are HONEST with us! This is the time to lay all your cards on the table and let him know why your so moody and upset about him. Let him know how you FEEL ABOUT HIM! Also, LET HIM KNOW that your unsure about everything and how you don't want to mess up your friendship!

IF anything else, at least explain to him WHY you need space away from him! He does deserve to know that.

If your that unsure, then maybe this (being apart from each other) is for the best from now on.

I mean what is the guy supposed to think? You push him away and then your proclaiming your love for him and telling him you will dig to china to find him!! For once, just be HONEST with him. If your not, your just gonna ruin everything.

blacksun
25-06-06, 03:59 AM
I dont know why you just dont tell him how you feel. You tried so hard to avoid telling him how you feel but it just messed everthing soo much harder on both of you. You have this notion that somehow he should ask you out, but the truth is you rejected him, and if he respects you he probably wont ask again, I know i woulden't (tho after reading your post i realize that that might be a mistake). Also if you told him you had feelings for him, hes a guy and even if he didnt have the same feelings for you he wouldent freak out like girls sometimes do. I have a few female friends that i dont really think of as real canidates for a relationship (maninly cause i know them so well in more professional enviroment) but if any of them wanted to persue a relationship I would at least give them a shot, even though i would never take the initiative with them.

221bBakerStreet
25-06-06, 06:29 PM
Oh, but it gets even more convoluted. Tonight, I ran into him at his apartment. I was dropping the dog off, and he walked into the house from work about 2 minutes after I did. He told me he'd like me to hang around for a while, but only if I wanted to, and I did. He had gotten his new computer and we spent about 4 hours together, trying to get it all set up. We had a blast together, but we didn't talk about anything serious.

Ellynn, I may take your advice after a while, but right now, I just need some damn SPACE. And that DOESN'T mean no contact with him at all, but reasonable amounts of contact, until I figure out what the hell I want. I didn't tell him then how I felt because I'm not there yet, and I won't be bullied into doing it before I think it through first, no matter HOW much he kicks and screams. And I didn't "proclaim" my love for him--I REMINDED him that I loved him, which he already knew. He's my friend, and I care about him. But I wasn't PROCLAIMING my love for him. I was simply firmly laying down the law that I was not going to leave him.

Also, Ellynn, I didn't mean to scare you. ;-) I've not lost him, not by a long shot. I told you he always pulls that "The Sky is Falling" routine when he's not getting what he wants. I'm used to it, and as you can see, I didn't even blink when he started with "**** off/blah blah my housekey/don't bother coming back". That's all a big steaming pantload; he was throwing a tantrum. When I've lost him, I'll know, and I haven't even come close yet. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. Clearly, we're not there yet.

I realize how brutal this must all be to him, and I hate it. But right now, I just need some breathing room. I'm not just being a bitch, playing hard to get, or being coy. No matter what/how I rationalize, I keep coming back to the ONLY thing I know for sure:

RIGHT NOW, I NEED SOME ROOM TO BREATHE.

And I'll take it. And "room to breathe" does NOT include spending 12 hours a day with him, OR having long, emotionally-charged, dramatic conversations.

Zero Interrupt
25-06-06, 08:34 PM
I'm not just being a bitch,

Oh, how wrong you are.

Blix
26-06-06, 12:58 AM
we spent about 4 hours together

RIGHT NOW, I NEED SOME ROOM TO BREATHE.

reasonable amounts of contact

You're kindof trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

~Blix

Ellynn
26-06-06, 02:03 AM
If the guy throws temper tantrums like that, maybe you guys are better off friends.
Imagine what a relationship would be like if you wanted some time alone, and say you didn't want to explain yourself. (which it seems you have a hard time doing.) yikes!



4 hrs together? how does this help with getting space? I mean I set up my own computer myself!(Its really not that hard.) Im not even that good with electronics!
But, I know your gonna say "i was over there anyways..." "He's not good at that kind of stuff.." " He asked me for help..." Etc. Since your not worried your friendship will end, then why the sudden get together timed exactly when he would be walking in the door? Why would you even bother to stay only cuz he asked you to? IF space is what you want, then stick to it. I mean what is the guy supposed to think when one min your being all distant and claim you want space, then the next your at his house and when he asks you to stay you willingly do and fall back into the reg routine. You need to follow through with what your telling him. You say one thing, and your actions say another. No wonder the guy is pissed. Then, if he throws a temper tantrum, you cave in and let him get his way. Grow some backbone! Let him know your serious about what your saying about space.

And maybe you weren't proclaiming your love to him. But you kept going on and on about how you would "dig a hole to china" to talk to him etc. Thats a bit extreme for friends don't you think?

All I can say, is that WHEN you are ready to actually do something and HONESTLY follow thru with it, then maybe we can help you. Until then, theres really nothing more I can say.

221bBakerStreet
26-06-06, 04:01 AM
we spent about 4 hours together

RIGHT NOW, I NEED SOME ROOM TO BREATHE.

reasonable amounts of contact

You're kindof trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

~Blix

Not at all. Spending 4 hours hanging out with him in the last 5 days is WAY better than normal. Usually, at the end of 5 days, we're pushing 40 hours together. And tonight, I won't see him at all. Reasonable amounts of contact.

221bBakerStreet
26-06-06, 04:47 AM
If the guy throws temper tantrums like that, maybe you guys are better off friends.
Imagine what a relationship would be like if you wanted some time alone, and say you didn't want to explain yourself. (which it seems you have a hard time doing.) yikes!

That's one of the MANY reasons I am looking, carefully, before I leap. He's definitely not perfect, by a long shot. But neither am I, and we like each other.

Also, after the tantrums, he's always more reasonable. The tantrum just means I've scared him with my request; it doesn't mean he won't do what I ask. Ever since that Messenger conversation, he's not been knocking on my door and blowing up my phone. I appreciate that; it helps SOOO much.


4 hrs together? how does this help with getting space? I mean I set up my own computer myself!(Its really not that hard.) Im not even that good with electronics!
But, I know your gonna say "i was over there anyways..." "He's not good at that kind of stuff.." " He asked me for help..." Etc. Since your not worried your friendship will end, then why the sudden get together timed exactly when he would be walking in the door? Why would you even bother to stay only cuz he asked you to?

Well, the truth is, he DOES need my help with his computer. He doesn't know shit about networking, and that's what he's trying to do. But this wasn't really about his computer; I stayed because I WANTED to. He asked if I wanted to, I thought about it, and I did. So I did.

Also, in my defense, the Baby and I were actually out of town together, since about noon yesterday. We were at a show, and I had no control over what time it ended. I came straight from about 60 miles out of town and went to his apartment to drop the dog off before I went home (she can't come to my house). I didn't time anything, that's just when I got there. When I pulled up and his truck wasn't outside, I actually thought I would make it out of there without seeing him. His plan had been to go pick up the new computer AFTER work (a trip of about 2 hours, plus!), so when I pulled up at his apt at 12:30 a.m. and he wasn't there, I figured I was in the clear. I walked in the house, turned on the light, and started to feed Roommate's Oscar. As I lifted the lid off the aquarium, the front door opened behind me. I didn't "time" my arrival to meet him there; he actually scared the piss out of me.


IF space is what you want, then stick to it. I mean what is the guy supposed to think when one min your being all distant and claim you want space, then the next your at his house and when he asks you to stay you willingly do and fall back into the reg routine. You need to follow through with what your telling him. You say one thing, and your actions say another. No wonder the guy is pissed. Then, if he throws a temper tantrum, you cave in and let him get his way. Grow some backbone! Let him know your serious about what your saying about space.

I didn't cave in and let him get his way! What you are forgetting is that 4 hours with him in 5 days, instead of like 8-12 a day, means I am getting my space.


And maybe you weren't proclaiming your love to him. But you kept going on and on about how you would "dig a hole to china" to talk to him etc. Thats a bit extreme for friends don't you think?

It wasn't digging a hole to china. It was swimming to Japan, and digging a hole to the center of the earth. You wouldn't do that for your friends?


All I can say, is that WHEN you are ready to actually do something and HONESTLY follow thru with it, then maybe we can help you. Until then, theres really nothing more I can say.

Well, for what it's worth, the replies I am getting on here ARE helping me considerably, even if it's just people playing Devil's Advocate. I need space, and I am and have been HONESTLY following through with it. It's tough, I admit, and I may not be doing it right. This is a difficult situation and I am doing the best I can. Any serious replies from anyone at all are welcome. The more detailed perspectives I get, the better to see this all more clearly. MAN, I don't want to screw this up.

Ellynn
26-06-06, 02:24 PM
That's one of the MANY reasons I am looking, carefully, before I leap. He's definitely not perfect, by a long shot. But neither am I, and we like each other.


Good idea! I guess you cannot help who you like.

Also, after the tantrums, he's always more reasonable. The tantrum just means I've scared him with my request; it doesn't mean he won't do what I ask. Ever since that Messenger conversation, he's not been knocking on my door and blowing up my phone. I appreciate that; it helps SOOO much.

Thats good. Now, he is giving you your space. At least something sunk in. :)

Well, the truth is, he DOES need my help with his computer. He doesn't know shit about networking, and that's what he's trying to do. But this wasn't really about his computer; I stayed because I WANTED to. He asked if I wanted to, I thought about it, and I did. So I did.
Ok, but I still think that your contradicting yourself on what you told him. But, hey, whatever works for you.
Also, in my defense, the Baby and I were actually out of town together, since about noon yesterday. We were at a show, and I had no control over what time it ended. I came straight from about 60 miles out of town and went to his apartment to drop the dog off before I went home (she can't come to my house). I didn't time anything, that's just when I got there. When I pulled up and his truck wasn't outside, I actually thought I would make it out of there without seeing him. His plan had been to go pick up the new computer AFTER work (a trip of about 2 hours, plus!), so when I pulled up at his apt at 12:30 a.m. and he wasn't there, I figured I was in the clear. I walked in the house, turned on the light, and started to feed Roommate's Oscar. As I lifted the lid off the aquarium, the front door opened behind me. I didn't "time" my arrival to meet him there; he actually scared the piss out of me.

Ok, fair enough. But, you could have opted to leave right away. But, instead you spent 4 hrs with him.

I didn't cave in and let him get his way! What you are forgetting is that 4 hours with him in 5 days, instead of like 8-12 a day, means I am getting my space.

I guess space with you and me is different. I have a job and work, so Im lucky if I even get to spend 4 hrs with my friends each week. And thats pushing it. And thats without asking for space. Space to me would be spending time away from them completely for awhile, or possibly less then an hr a week.

It wasn't digging a hole to china. It was swimming to Japan, and digging a hole to the center of the earth. You wouldn't do that for your friends?
HAHA, yeah i knew it was something along those lines. I got my words mixed up a bit. :P But, you just kept listing stuff. I would gladly do that for my close friends, but I don't go on and on about it. But, thats just me.


Well, for what it's worth, the replies I am getting on here ARE helping me considerably, even if it's just people playing Devil's Advocate. I need space, and I am and have been HONESTLY following through with it. It's tough, I admit, and I may not be doing it right. This is a difficult situation and I am doing the best I can. Any serious replies from anyone at all are welcome. The more detailed perspectives I get, the better to see this all more clearly. MAN, I don't want to screw this up.
Yeah, your in a sucky situation. I'm sure you wish you DIDN'T have any feelings like that for your friend if you had the choice. It would make life alot easier. But, you have to figure out what you want and then go from there. We are only trying to help you get OUT of this mess. Not, keep things in limbo or make things fall apart. I'm a procrastinator at times too, but if anything I learned I would rather get to the bottom of things instead of waiting and wondering "what if". So, I've made it a point to be more blunt and not to beat around the bush so much. It seems to clear up things instead of sitting there wondering.
You do realize though that if you decide you don't want to be with him, your gonna have to distance yourself even more then you already have. Especially if you decide to get a relationship going. I mean this is even the case if he doesn't feel the same for you. So, expect the worst and hope for the best.

tsarazen
25-07-06, 07:42 AM
Hello
I just read your comment on your yahoo blog about your turning your new best friend into a possible boyfriend.

I work for a new show called "The Greg Behrendt Show."
Greg is a comedian who wrote for "Sex and the City" and is the author of
"He's Just Not That Into You."

I am currently working on a segment on the show about ultimatums and I think your story is perfect for our show. Would you be interested in talking to me about your bestfriend/boyfriend and your relationship?

Thanks for your time
Tara
The Greg Behrendt Show
castingguru@yahoo.com

vashti
25-07-06, 08:17 AM
Haha - "he's just not that into you"... perfect...