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clearskies
30-06-08, 01:19 AM
Does Appearance Count that much?

I would say YES . What would you say if you read the following quotations from a ppt I came across online?

'Books are judged by their covers'

'Appearances count, not only in first impressions, but also in ongoing interactions. In his comprehensive research on communication, sociologist Albert Mehrabian found that in a face-to-face encounter, 7 percent of a verbal message comes from the words used; 38 percent comes from the vocal tone, pacing, and inflection; 55 PERCENT of the message is transmitted by the speakerís appearance and body language.'

Is not 55 % too much for appearance & body language while 7% is too little for the words ?

boobaa
30-06-08, 01:28 AM
Yes, it does count until certain level.
You can tell what type of person it is according to what type of clothes he/she wears. How he/she acts. If person is overly dirty, there clearly is something wrong for example, like being overly individual or obsessed. If person has a new handbag after every week, that can tell something too. On some cases, you can also tell how rich or poor someone is. If there are average clothes, but very quality lether sandals for example, he/she is well off enough. But a macho shirt and single golden chain may be his only richness which also tells what kind of things he values more.

clearskies
30-06-08, 01:33 AM
Yes, indeed. what you say is absolutely true. But I would like to let you know that this saying was talking about people who are giving presentation or a talk and not in normal day life.

Illusional
30-06-08, 02:13 AM
bottom line, if you are ugly then you are ugly. there's no changing that.

raverboy

clearskies
30-06-08, 02:15 AM
It's a technical issue for professionls who train on communication skills or at least teach or even sell and have to give formal talks & presentations.... it has nothing to do with beauty or daily life.

Illusional
30-06-08, 02:29 AM
ok... so you are referring to "appearance" and to how to get your point across rather than one person looking to get laid?

if so, i will still stick to my point. i'd much rather listen to a hot chick tell a speech as opposed to an ugly fat dude. c'mon, regardless of who is trained better, books are judged by their covers.

raverboy

boobaa
30-06-08, 03:21 AM
If a fat guy is talking about healthy food, I wouldn't take him very seriously.

Asparagoose
30-06-08, 05:06 AM
Is not 55 % too much for appearance & body language while 7% is too little for the words ?

I remember reading this somewhere too. It's not so much appearance as it is just the delivery of what you're trying to say. Only 7% of the message is passed on through the words, the rest all has to do with how you deliver it. I agree with that. Except for some guys that are like rocks, and don't seem to move a muscle when they speak. Then it's 100% the words that count.

clearskies
30-06-08, 05:15 AM
I agree with what you said but for the last part... 'Except for some guys that are like rocks, and don't seem to move a muscle when they speak. Then it's 100% the words that count.' I think less than 7% will count.

Illusional
30-06-08, 05:15 AM
hey, you have heard of this news broadcast called, "naked news"? i forget which country that it is aired in, but this would get me to watch the news. and they offer both genders for you females.

raverboy

Asparagoose
30-06-08, 05:30 AM
I think less than 7% will count.

You haven't worked for someone who only answers with words like "hi, yes, no, bye" or points and nods. Each words counts for more than 100% and you better know what he's trying to say or else he'll give you the disappointed death stair if you don't follow his very detailed one word directions.

He takes himself too seriously and thinks the less he speaks, the more of a man or more macho he is. It's really not that big of a deal if he would speak more, it's not like anyone would think any less of him.

Lipp
30-06-08, 08:16 AM
Don't forget that its 55% appearance AND body language. Which means that physical appearance is one part, but body language doesn't apply to how you look, it's about how you move and gesture.

clearskies
30-06-08, 11:06 PM
Right, body language includes your movement in the place, motion of your hands, facial expressions, tone and volume of your voice, gestures, eye contact is also an important factor.. what else?

Asparagoose
01-07-08, 12:35 PM
Right, body language includes your movement in the place, motion of your hands, facial expressions, tone and volume of your voice, gestures, eye contact is also an important factor.. what else?

I guess the way you say it. Like maybe how fast or slow you talk and the pauses you take between words. Pace?

Maybe also who is saying it. If a special guest speaker is saying something, it might have a bigger impact than just some random person making the same speech.

anachronistic
01-07-08, 07:28 PM
Most people will buy a painting based on the way it looks... but few, usually only artists, will know the craftsmanship, the skills, the materials, the thoughts, and everything it took to make it.

The same can be said about attraction... most people will go out with someone based on how someone looks. That's because they don't know very much. I know I don't need to emphasize.

Looks are often a wall, too. Some of us needs someone that looks decent, but is still lovable. The same can be said about art, lol... I still don't buy into a whole lot of that abstract expressionist stuff...

clearskies
09-07-08, 06:25 AM
I guess the way you say it. Like maybe how fast or slow you talk and the pauses you take between words. Pace?

Maybe also who is saying it. If a special guest speaker is saying something, it might have a bigger impact than just some random person making the same speech.

That is what I am talking about, true... as an academic certified trainer in a certain field, I can confirm these are some of the main factors of a successful presentation... Let's go back to Antony speech in Julius Ceaser play... Remember how genius he was?

Junket
09-07-08, 07:42 AM
Most people will buy a painting based on the way it looks... but few, usually only artists, will know the craftsmanship, the skills, the materials, the thoughts, and everything it took to make it.

There's little other reason to buy a painting besides for how it looks.

DoesntMatter
09-07-08, 08:05 AM
I like for my eyes to rest upon a pair of well-shaped breasts

Pears
09-07-08, 08:43 AM
bottom line, if you are ugly then you are ugly. there's no changing that.

raverboy

Surgery?
____

anachronistic
09-07-08, 08:58 AM
Have you ever listened to Fake Plastic Trees, Pears?

miSSleepy
09-07-08, 09:17 AM
Does Appearance Count that much?

I would say YES . What would you say if you read the following quotations from a ppt I came across online?

'Books are judged by their covers'

They are


'Appearances count, not only in first impressions, but also in ongoing interactions. In his comprehensive research on communication, sociologist Albert Mehrabian found that in a face-to-face encounter, 7 percent of a verbal message comes from the words used; 38 percent comes from the vocal tone, pacing, and inflection; 55 PERCENT of the message is transmitted by the speaker’s appearance and body language.'

Is not 55 % too much for appearance & body language while 7% is too little for the words ?

No that's about right.


Yes, indeed. what you say is absolutely true. But I would like to let you know that this saying was talking about people who are giving presentation or a talk and not in normal day life.

Of course it's true in every day life! If people want to be successful in business/meetings etc they have to use strategies that that work with natural body language techniques.
It's why some people are said to be charismatic and popular while others are cold fish no matter what they day: the body language.


I agree with what you said but for the last part... 'Except for some guys that are like rocks, and don't seem to move a muscle when they speak. Then it's 100% the words that count.' I think less than 7% will count.

Huh? If you were talking to a guy who was like a rock and didn't move a muscle, basically a statue, and he was saying how much he loves you etc in a monotone voice, what would you think? Unless you knew him prior to statue-syndrome, you'd think he's being insincere, lacks character and is very boring. Hence you ARE judging him more on body language!

Tiny, subtle body language does influence us more than words, unless you're really unreceptive to it and have gullible tendencies. Women are better at receiving these signals than men, in general.

As for the OP, are you talking about body language and non-verbal signals, or the actual attractiveness of people? This thread is a mess.

EDIT: blueskies, I might have misunderstood the point you're trying to make in that last quote. If I have, ignore me!

clearskies
10-07-08, 02:35 AM
miSSleepy: thank you for your valuable comment... Actually, the main point of my thread, as I earlier mentioned, was about technical presentations and people whose jobs depend mainly on lectures, presentations, talks, etc like myself. But some member contributions have given it a more wide scope to include relationships as well. It is also welcome.

clearskies
10-07-08, 02:37 AM
By the way, I liked the photo up there of the ship... One of my neighbours was spending his weekends in painting a boat and it always parked in my front garden in NI.

IndiReloaded
10-07-08, 02:48 AM
CS, communication is important. Even in the sciences, where traditionally such issues have been (relatively) ignored. You can have the best idea or data in the world, but if you can't communicate it to someone else, it might as well not exist.

That said, I notice a disturbing trend towards 'dressing up' mediocre results. Ppl giving beautifully presented talks about, essentially nothing.

If you want to truly help your students, teach them to think critically about what they see & not to get too bogged down in the glitz & glam.

Cream & bullshit both float to the top. The trick is separating them.

clearskies
10-07-08, 02:52 AM
CS, communication is important. Even in the sciences, where traditionally such issues have been (relatively) ignored. You can have the best idea or data in the world, but if you can't communicate it to someone else, it might as well not exist.

That said, I notice a disturbing trend towards 'dressing up' mediocre results. Ppl giving beautifully presented talks about, essentially nothing.

If you want to truly help your students, teach them to think critically about what they see & not to get too bogged down in the glitz & glam.

Cream & bullshit both float to the top. The trick is separating them.

that is what I was looking for !! Excellent ... I do not agree that 55% of the presentation is about body language... I always thought that the words used and I mean by it the context and concepts to take more weight.
'Ppl giving beautifully presented talks about, essentially nothing.' : that is also absolutely right ... I see the one giving such presentation exaclty like a comic actor, he can attract u for a while but what remains with you after that .. Nothing..

IndiReloaded
10-07-08, 03:06 AM
Its a sign of the times, CS & the new tools that are available for such. Ppt presentations are now the norm in science; I remember talks with blackboards & overheads. There are still a few bastions of this type of talk out there (esp in hard sciences like math & physics) but they are increasingly rare & audiences don't seem to tolerate them well.

The trend has been to teach our students to become great presenters, to write sexy grant proposals, etc. b/c that is the expectation: that if they don't, they won't be competitive. Worse, if they don't they run the risk of *boring* or aggravating their audience or reviewer (who might not understand or give a favourable score).

Trouble is, of course, that now its trivial to create these Hollywood quality talks. Students regularly give talks full of bells & whistles that I wouldn't have had a clue how to do even 10 years ago. And, boy, do they SOUND confident!

But its often only surface deep. 'All sizzle, and no steak', to mutate a popular phrase.

Now, we need to teach our students to sift the crap from the cream. That's an entirely different skillset they'll need to develop.

YouTube - ShiftHappens

miSSleepy
10-07-08, 09:21 AM
By the way, I liked the photo up there of the ship... One of my neighbours was spending his weekends in painting a boat and it always parked in my front garden in NI.

Yeh, that ship is actually a coal ship washed up on an Australian beach (Nobby's Head, named after that landmark you see) after huge storms and flooding a year ago. It took so much effort and time to move it, they were afraid it would leak everywhere. It was like a tourist attraction for a while.




Anyway, Indi pointed out something I didn't really think about before. Now that I think about it, anything can be made to look credible and sophisticated using a ppt presentation, but if the content is decent i think it's just another medium, a more modern one. It certainly makes my unieversity lectures easier to follow.

Mish
10-07-08, 10:16 AM
Does Appearance Count that much?


I think not just apopearance, but everything counts that much. Intelligence, body language, the voice, the smell (definetly the smell), the chemistry, the values etc etc. All of these are genetical cues that communicate to us how right the individual is for us as a partner.

A lot of these cues we don't even pick up consciously. That's why we sometimes like certain people, but we don't really know why.

anachronistic
10-07-08, 10:22 AM
Appearance does include body language, intelligence, voice, and all that. It's the way you 'appear' to others.

I would say that appearance also depends on the way others perceive things - just the same way some people are blind to some colors, and some aren't. That's dependent on their experiences, the way they see themselves, the way they judge people, and their own appearance.

Mish
10-07-08, 10:31 AM
Appearance does include body language, intelligence, voice, and all that. It's the way you 'appear' to others.


Appearance has a number of definitions, I think the one that cleaskies was reffering to was more along the lines of "If you were a book, your appearance is only the cover".

anachronistic
10-07-08, 10:35 AM
You're right, that's probably what she was referring to. I don't think a lot of people realize all the evaluations and things that happen on the unconscious level.

IndiReloaded
11-07-08, 04:43 AM
Here, CS, is a current example of how slick argumentation is being used to push forward what is, essentially, a poor idea. The intelligent design ppl are at it again:

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/mg19926643.300?DCMP=NLC-nletter&nsref=mg19926643.300

anachronistic
11-07-08, 04:56 AM
Dude, Indie, there should be a class in elementary/middle/high school that teaches students to be open minded, and just that. You can't learn anything without one.

It's really annoying that people do that with evolution and all that. :P

clearskies
11-07-08, 05:34 AM
Yes indeed..
another issue came upon my mind.. what do you think of Quality in Education...Is it only filling docs, forms and papers or is it actually the core of the teaching /education process?

Junket
11-07-08, 06:22 AM
It's really annoying that people do that with evolution and all that. :P

Are you kidding me?

Evolution kicks anything else's ass.

IndiReloaded
11-07-08, 06:57 AM
I'm going to start my own school & call it Rational Education. I'm tired of this crap.

Anyone want to teach w/me?

Junket
11-07-08, 06:59 AM
I'm going to start my own school & call it Rational Education. I'm tired of this crap.

Anyone want to teach w/me?

What grades is it for?

IndiReloaded
11-07-08, 07:12 AM
K - 8. I don't want to deal with the high school hormones. And kids are like sponges so best to train them young. School is from 8am - 5pm

Early am meditation (30 min)
Muscular control focus (30 min)
Mathematics (1 hour)
Science (1.5 hour)
Martial arts training (1 hour)
Foreign Language (1 hour)
Creative problem solving (1.5 hour)
(including human interpersonal dynamics)
Lunch/free relaxation time (30 min)
Music/Dance/Art (1 hour)
Final Meditation (30 min)

That's my curriculum.

You guys do know that I just make this stuff up, right?

Junket
11-07-08, 07:14 AM
You need another recess or something, in there.

IndiReloaded
11-07-08, 07:17 AM
No. Kids are there to learn & work, not goof around at recess. They get martial arts & muscular training & meditation time. If they need to pee, they just go do it (but let the instructor know). Personal responsibility & self-discipline is to be emphasized.

I should probably include a free study time for older kids, tho.

Fras, I am making this shit up as I go, you read that, ya? ;)

Junket
11-07-08, 07:20 AM
No, you need recess.

Otherwise, your school will suck.

IndiReloaded
11-07-08, 07:25 AM
Recess = coffee break for teachers to get away from the little shits.

Troublemakers in my school will be dealt with by their peers, in a democratic fashion with older/more advanced students holding a higher weight in the voting.

You never read Ender's Game, Fras. You should. ;)

Junket
11-07-08, 07:33 AM
Troublemakers in my school will be dealt with by their peers, in a democratic fashion with older/more advanced students holding a higher weight in the voting.

I think this is a perfect way for popular kids to abuse the less popular with the teacher's blessing.

IndiReloaded
11-07-08, 07:38 AM
I think this is a perfect way for popular kids to abuse the less popular with the teacher's blessing.

Not popular. They need to earn the right to be able to vote based on their development & performance. Esp in human interpersonal interactions. Its a meritocracy.

And teachers *would* be monitoring/facilitating, but only to guide the students decision process when necessary. Abuse of privileges would also be dealt with & could result in a loss of earned merit:D

Your parents never let you do this? My son has a say in all our household decisions (that we feel are age-appropriate for him to be aware of). We have a big whiteboard in our kitchen we write our ideas down on & then discuss either at dinner or a formal 'family meeting'. He's coming up w/some surprising ideas these days.

Mish
11-07-08, 08:26 AM
K - 8. I don't want to deal with the high school hormones. And kids are like sponges so best to train them young. School is from 8am - 5pm

Early am meditation (30 min)
Muscular control focus (30 min)
Mathematics (1 hour)
Science (1.5 hour)
Martial arts training (1 hour)
Foreign Language (1 hour)
Creative problem solving (1.5 hour)
(including human interpersonal dynamics)
Lunch/free relaxation time (30 min)
Music/Dance/Art (1 hour)
Final Meditation (30 min)

That's my curriculum.

You guys do know that I just make this stuff up, right?

When can we begin?

Junket
11-07-08, 09:09 AM
Your parents never let you do this? My son has a say in all our household decisions (that we feel are age-appropriate for him to be aware of). We have a big whiteboard in our kitchen we write our ideas down on & then discuss either at dinner or a formal 'family meeting'. He's coming up w/some surprising ideas these days.

Hell, no.

You might recall that anytime mothers are mentioned I take the opportunity to bash on mine. My mother was fantastic at guilting her children in feeling bad for her, and turning them against their 1 of 3 fathers.

No, my household was more of a survival of the fittest, kind of deals. I made it out, though, not unscathed. My brother also made it out. My oldest f*ck up of a sister fled at 13, and my two younger sisters have been consumed by the hell that is that house.

LoveDoctor
11-07-08, 09:11 AM
for a teen like me, looks count for almost 50%

i mean, i don't know why, but I just sorta dispise ugly girls.

Junket
11-07-08, 10:09 AM
for a teen like me, looks count for almost 50%

i mean, i don't know why, but I just sorta dispise ugly girls.

What?

We're talking about an imaginary school, here.

Get back on topic.

Illusional
11-07-08, 10:14 AM
whoa... who is against recess?? if the children don't expend their energy outside, you know what what happen inside of the classroom.

raverboy

IndiReloaded
12-07-08, 02:15 AM
What?

We're talking about an imaginary school, here.

Get back on topic.
_______
LOL! :D

Fras, your post is startling. You're a remarkable young man to have made it through that kind of upbringing. Pass what you've learned on to your kids, darlin.

I read things like this & I can't help but think how Heinlein's line marriages can only be a good thing for children. Dilutes out the mental parent issues.

For those who have never thought about this before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_marriage

EDIT: Don't freak out, Cain. Its just an idea... so far. I'm still trying to get Mish & Gribble to apply. ;)

LoveDoctor
12-07-08, 04:30 AM
What?

We're talking about an imaginary school, here.

Get back on topic.


I am on topic dipshit:P

clearskies
12-07-08, 04:39 AM
What about if we start this school actually to be an online school? E-Learning and such educational technologies..Later we may offer HE degrees and diplomas as well.

IndiReloaded
12-07-08, 05:39 AM
Some things can't be taught remotely, CS. Not at the younger ages, especially.

I'm very supportive of e-learning (as everyone here knows), things like iTunes U is frankly amazing, but I think its true benefit is for those who already know HOW to learn.

Besides, how could we possibly teach the Weirding Way & muscular control via the internet? ;)

Dr.Love, you are fine. Fras is just jerking your chain, lol.

clearskies
12-07-08, 05:43 AM
Oh Indi, you are right.. Physical Fitness Excercises for example to build a good shape can not take place online the way it is in real school. I am asking myself now, who has the fund to start this ideal project ? Will it be a profitable organisation of not and where will it be?

IndiReloaded
12-07-08, 02:57 PM
Clearskies, I think you might be interested in this newborn University (just opened this past year). They have a totally new approach to teaching/learning than the standard academic model that is out there. Perhaps there might be a fit for you:

http://www.questu.ca/academics/foundation_program/index.php

As for the elementary school, I was really just spouting off. However, there is a need, so mbe I will give it some more serious thought in the coming months.

anachronistic
12-07-08, 03:05 PM
Hell, no.

You might recall that anytime mothers are mentioned I take the opportunity to bash on mine. My mother was fantastic at guilting her children in feeling bad for her, and turning them against their 1 of 3 fathers.

No, my household was more of a survival of the fittest, kind of deals. I made it out, though, not unscathed. My brother also made it out. My oldest f*ck up of a sister fled at 13, and my two younger sisters have been consumed by the hell that is that house.

Happens to the best of us. :)

Gribble
12-07-08, 03:18 PM
I'm totally up for group marriages. So long as I'm the only male present.

IndiReloaded
12-07-08, 03:22 PM
Dude, Indie, there should be a class in elementary/middle/high school that teaches students to be open minded, and just that. You can't learn anything without one.

It shouldn't be just a class, hon. It should be integral to the way everything is taught. Even a concept as simple as 1+1 = 2 should be open to debate w/a resolution as to why it works (in base10, anyway).

RIP George Carlin:

YouTube - George Carlin -Question Everything

Gribble
12-07-08, 03:32 PM
This is why I think philosophy and logic should be taught alongside the alphabet in kindergarten. If people knew how to think for themselves we'd have a far more tolerant and educated world.

IndiReloaded
12-07-08, 03:38 PM
I'm totally up for group marriages. So long as I'm the only male present.

Ha, but not a line marriage. Ah well... <scratch Gribble off list>

Next book recommendation for you: Heinlein's 'The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress'.

But read Cyteen first, for sure.

clearskies
12-07-08, 10:58 PM
clearskies, I would love to know more about you, strictly out of curiosity.

Thank you for your interest Aegis, What wd you like to know?

Indi: I thought we could do something online.. What is the best way to spread such a new way of thinking? We are not against Hi Tech teaching A/V aids, technologies and strategies but have a say to put an end to :
- Massive amounts of information poured into the brains of pupils or HE students.
- Attractive ppt with no context or real objectives.
- What else?

clearskies
12-07-08, 11:04 PM
I'm totally up for group marriages. So long as I'm the only male present.

I do not know what brought the subject of group marriages here but I do not mind saying my opinion about it...
On the personal side, my Wedding ceremony should be the most special occasion in my life. I won't share in group marriages and will be putting loads of money for this party.

clearskies
13-07-08, 12:01 AM
I have lived in the UK & Ireland for a long time and got my PG degrees from there. I prefer never to settle in one place. I never been to Asia but it might be my next stop. I am 35, divorced with a kid.

DoesntMatter
13-07-08, 12:16 AM
I think the idea of open-mindedness and tolerance is good to a limited extent, but a lot of people don't know where to draw the line

IndiReloaded
13-07-08, 02:58 AM
I think the idea of open-mindedness and tolerance is good to a limited extent, but a lot of people don't know where to draw the line

Yes? And where should that line be drawn, DM?

Nice, meaningless phrase, that. This is the kind of problem I am talking about--half baked ideas based on a concept that hasn't actually been thought all the way through.

Take my post about line marriages as an example. I posted it, but yet I am married in a mongomous fashion. Analysis?

anachronistic
13-07-08, 03:20 AM
Man, this thread is perfect. Indie and Gribble: I don't even have to say a word because you posted my exact thoughts! :D

anachronistic
13-07-08, 03:22 AM
I'm totally up for group marriages. So long as I'm the only male present.

Meh, I wouldn't mind not being the only male, so long that everyone was bisexual.

clearskies
13-07-08, 03:59 AM
Man, this thread is perfect. Indie and Gribble: I don't even have to say a word because you posted my exact thoughts! :D

I agree on that.. Specially Indie who has enriched this thread much.

boobaa
13-07-08, 05:56 AM
Its funny how some people who praise the 'question everything' lifestyle, actually appear very close minded in some areas. And some people never question anothers motives, they just assume things from their own perspective.

Its interesting how morals fed us to not question certain things, like serious matter for example. Take death, some people take it as an insult if you question someones death, but that is just an investigation because he has respect for the world, including the subject matter. If he questions and doesn't find anything to support his doubts, then tolerant guys usually respect and feel symphaty, but I for example want to know what happened, so I could feel it. I can't for something I don't know.

I've never heard about George Carlin before, thats probably because I have never lived in USA, but from this video, I like the guy. Speaks his mind and doesn't worry about people hating him afterwards, my kind of person.

clearskies
13-07-08, 06:06 AM
boobaa is that the semi wrong post in the wrong place? read the title of the thread ..what is to do wrt death.... it is all about education, presntations, teaching methodologies, etc

anachronistic
13-07-08, 06:12 AM
Sometimes you can measure a person's intelligence, by the way they respond to something, LOL.

boobaa
13-07-08, 06:19 AM
boobaa is that the semi wrong post in the wrong place? read the title of the thread ..what is to do wrt death.... it is all about education, presntations, teaching methodologies, etc

No, it was in a very right place. And the talk from Indis post was 'question everything', I just brought an example, because my subconsious probably brought this up, maybe because of some arguments in this forum, which came into my mind. Funny how people see and remember certain words, but never the whole thing. Its interesting, sometimes I have a bit fun with that.

Often people lose control with such matters, emotional matters. However, sometimes emotions are triggered by fed moral. You know, emotions can be tricky, and can change, go over, so the best thing is to avoid them when speaking important matter., unless you want to provoke some certain emotion which actually speaks against open mindedness...

clearskies
13-07-08, 06:21 AM
OK .. it fits right now.

Gribble
13-07-08, 07:08 AM
DM, where do you draw the line? Tolerance I can understand. It should only go so far. Islam, for example, is a religion I have extremely little tolerance for. But what about open-mindedness? Surely there isn't a line that needs to be drawn there, right?

anachronistic
13-07-08, 07:10 AM
Being open minded is being able to accept reality, as a whole, and then creating a better reality with it.

You don't really draw lines. As far as tolerance, you should not tolerate it when a person becomes biased, or begins to insult yourself as a person. But then again, you tolerate people, not ideas.

boobaa
13-07-08, 07:14 AM
If someone does something bad for you, you may not like it and obviously not tolerate it, thats completely fine. But open mindness is that plus you actually start to think what may have caused this bad act, from their perspective, instead of just stupid revenge.

IndiReloaded
13-07-08, 10:26 AM
unless you want to provoke some certain emotion which actually speaks against open mindedness...

Oh yes, this is the whole point of rhetoric & 'spin'. This was an awesome point, Boobaa.

Is it possible, CS, to create a presentation that is perhaps a bit too easy to follow, a tad too slick, thus lulling the audience into agreement? People just hate to be made to think, you know... :surprised

IndiReloaded
13-07-08, 10:40 AM
DM, where do you draw the line? Tolerance I can understand. It should only go so far. Islam, for example, is a religion I have extremely little tolerance for. But what about open-mindedness? Surely there isn't a line that needs to be drawn there, right?

Personally, I subscribe to the 'one strike then you're out' method when it comes to ideas & drawing lines.

For example, I was introduced to the idea of homeopathy some time ago. I even tried a couple remedies & got involved in a study. Keeping an open mind & all that.

When I saw for myself that it was based on deliberate misinterpretation of data (which was tenuous to begin with) & studies which had absolutely NO reason to be so poorly conducted, given what we know about how to run a proper study, I decided this particular area was simply bullshit. Or at least no better than placebo. But I did keep a true open mind in making this decision. Now, some might say I wasted my time & thoughts to look into it in the first place (those who know anything about chemistry know that their dilutions beyond Avogadros # means there isn't a single molecule of compound left), but I was curious & wanted to see for myself. I do that sometimes, its an amusement.

That was their 'one strike'. Homeopathy failed my 'reasonable' criteria & rather miserably. Now, in order for me to be convinced about this fakery would require an entirely new branch of physics be discovered & proven. In other words, I'm quite confidently able to call it bullshit, IMO. My line has been drawn and, if asked, there is no way I would waste good public research funds on this quackery.