Hi all, newbie nees help BAD....

[Never4Got]

Hi;

As per title, I'm new to your forum. I actually found this site through a search, registered and am now here. I need a place to "sound off" and hopefully gain some abstract advice on something that has stayed with me for years and has now resurfaced. I'll start from the begining........PLEASE bear with me as I need to talk about this and need some advice......

About 21 years ago now I went to a nearby town where a cousin of mine lives to see him and show off my new car. I called and we agreed to meet at a service station/car wash kids hung out around back then (1983).

One particular freind of my cousin Chuck's was Johnny. Johnny was an ok guy, but I always (as did everyone else) sensed tension with his girlfreind Judy.

Well, time went by and I dated several girls from the area. One weekend my cousin and his girlfreind along with the girl I was dating went to an arcade/roller rink in a neighboring town. Upon arriving and getting out of my car, we heard some yelling and screaming around the cornor of the building. My cousin and I went to check it out. Low and behold it was Johnny and Judy arguing. They didn't see us and Chuck pulled me away saying "oh god....here we go again". I asked what he meant and Chuck said.....you didn't know? Johnny is a real "hot head" and gets mad if Judy does anything he doesn't like. About that time you could hear Johnny REALLY raise his voice and Judy screamed out......Chuck had a hold of my arm but I pulled away and went over there. Johnny saw me then and tried to smooth it over. I didn't bite seeing judy crying and asked him if he wanted to try that on someone his size and his gender........he got pissed at me and I gladly beat his ass. Judy finally told me to stop, and I did, but I could tell she was thankfull and she smiled at me and whispered "thanks". We left and didn't see Johnny or Judy for a few weeks.

Welll.....here's where i was an ahole too and I'm sorry about that. What I mentioned above, I knew I was attracted to judy.....but she and Johnny were actually engaged so I knew that was a "no go". My date and my cousin and his girlfreind went to a wedding dance for one of my cousins freinds and I guy I knew by then too. We weren't there for a half hour and my cousins girlfreind Diane pulled me aside......she proceeded to tell me that judy was there, her and Johnny had broken up for good, and she wanted to talk to me to thank me. Diane said she would keep my date Lynne occupied and I went over there to talk to Judy.

We talked......and talked.....and danced.....Lynee eventually got extremely mad (and I'm still sorry for that) and Diane and Chuck took her home...When they got back, Judy and I took Chuck and Diane to his car and we sat and talked some some more.....it was obvious there was VERY strong mutual attraction, but we both agreed it was to soon after Johnny. I brought her home and that was that for 5 weeks.....I never saw her, she never went out.

In the meantime, Johnny hooked up with another girl and actually started talking to me again. Almost 2 months later one Saturday night, whom shows up out of the blue??? Judy! LOL! She walks straight up to me and asks "why in the hell haven't I called her???" I was floored! I told her I wasn't sure I should and was waiting for her......To make the next part short....Judy and I were an "item" from that night on!

Judy had enrolled in nursing school at the University of MO that Fall and being some 80 miles from her, had to move up to Columbia. I lived closer by some 30 miles and at first we just swapped weekends....I'd go up, or she'd come down.

I absolutely adored her.......to the point, and this is honest to God fact, we were sitting outside a bar we were leaving one night and she asked me...."Mark, why haven't you ever tried anything on me?" I hadn't......I respected her THAT much and was even considering waiting until we would hopefully get married......I told her that and I believe it floored her......she actually started crying and said she couldn't believe she had turned a "bad boy" like me (I liked racing and pulling trucks) into such a "softy" and that I must really love her. She said she was SO glad it was me that showed up that night and admitted that she was crazy about me from the time we had met.

After that, we couldn't take it.....I quit my job and moved in with her and her roomates in Columbia. Things were great, but if anyone is old enough to recall, jobs were scarce back then so I eventually had to take my job back in my hometown (which happened to be for my father as I was a construction foreman). It finally got to the point I HAD to move back down there because the work and drive were killing me.

The next Spring things got kind of rocky......I still don't know what happened completely.....a roomate of hers told me that she was cheating on me during the week when I wasn't there.....I blew it off but it kinda' stuck with me....finally, the other roomate told me the same thing.....I had to confront her. I did so and we got into a huge fight! Judy said it was only Kelly wanting to break us up......I told her it wasn't only Kelly that Kim had told me too! She then got REALLY mad and I ended up leaving, she said not to bother calling.....so.....I didn't.

Over a month went by and again, I thought it was up to Judy to call......she didn't.......after 2 months and no contact, I figured it was "over" for sure.

At that point, Kim told me............Judy had moved back home. I found this REALLY odd......why would she give up everything and move home???? By this time, I had stopped hanging around with my cousin up where he lived (as well as Judy) so I decided to go see him. I talked to all of them and yeah, they knew it......they knew we had broken up, but didn't know why she moved home. They said she never went out at all and just stayed at her parents house. I asked Diane, Chuck's girlfeind to try and find out.......

About 2 weeks later i get a call from Diane.....she told me to come up, she needed to see me about Judy. I took off and raced to her and Chuck's house (Chuck and Diane had gotten married 6 months prior). Diane told me that Judy had moved home because she was pregnant! I FREAKED! Diane told me to settle down though because........it wasn't mine.....I was floored and even though they tried to stop me, I just stumbled out in a daze and took off.

I didn't handle this well at all

Well.....a few years go by and I had met a girl. I still thought about Judy everyday.......but told myself to forget it and move on......I eventually married this girl......it lasted all of 1 year 1 month.

After the divorce, on a whim, I decided to go see what was happening in Rosebud........well, talked to Chuck and believe it or not......I had picked the weekend that Judy was getting MARRIED! it was not to the suppossed fater of her child, but to some guy she had met where she worked. Everyone told me this guy was not "her" but that her parents were pushing her to marry. They all said they never saw her anymore and she never came around or called. They were all invited......but were not going to the wedding. They decided they needed to go to the dance/reception AND BRING ME! I said no way.......but after a few beers......they talked me into it. We walked in and I swear......her jaw hit the floor. Mind you, it had been nearly 2 years now. She didn't come over or say a word......but kept an eye on me all night. Then came the dollar dance.......(an old midwest thing where guys line up to dance with the bride and give her a dollar for the privledge) Chuck and the rest pushed me, so I did it......Well, finally it was my turn. She looked at me, smiled, and put her head on my shoulder......I never said a word.....she did though.....she just said "Mark, I love you and I'm so, so, sorry, please don't hate me and never forget me". That was it......I turned and left.......the rest came out to find me crying.

I never saw Judy again although I got weird phone calls with no answer, birthday cards with no signature.......even an X-Mas presn ent delivered to my parents home with no name or anything except a card saying "I love you".

Fast forward to 1999. I've since remarried and have 2 kids of my own. Aug 12th of that year though......I fell 17' and totally messed up my back. 2 years of therapy and the doctors tell me there's no way I can ever work again.

Out of the blue March 24th (Judy's birthday) (and by the way, yes, I still thought about her at times.....just wondering how she was though) my MOTHER receives a call......it was from my cousin Chuck's wife Diane. Diane tells my mother that she has recently begun talking with Judy again.......seems Judy confided in Diane that it really WAS my child! I called Diane and she told me that Judy asked her to never tell anyone, but Chuck and her talked and Diane decided she had to, but didn't know how to reach me. Judy told Diane that after all these years never a day has passed that she hasn't thought about me, but could always see me in her son......she said she didn't think I was ready back then to be a parent............or at least that's what HER parents got her to believe.......She says that she will never love anyone half as much as she still loves me and that her husband is fine, provides a good living, but she's never been happy and still hopes someday to be able to be with me again.

Well.......there it is.......I'm serious......this is killing me, and it's the truth honest to God.......I've got another son I've never met.......the woman whom has been in my mind and my heart for over 20 years has felt the same about me.......but I've got a family and kids I love......I'm going crazy people......what should i do? Sorry for the long post......but I had to get it out......I haven't been able to talk about this for so long........

PLEASE.....I AM SERIOUS AND NEED SOME OUTSIDE OPINIONS>>>>>

[artyemi]

Hey Never4got-

I can't give you any advice. Here's just a pat on the back, and a hug.

[Kiechi]

Um why can't people make seperate threads? One for introduction and one for dating? I'm moving this.

[Never4Got]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiechi

Um why can't people make seperate threads? One for introduction and one for dating? I'm moving this.

I'm sorry.....I'm new here and not much of an online or forums guy......just have a lot on my mind and really confused/upset right now.....

[misombra]

aw. group hug. okay break.

i don't know what to say never4get. i read in a book i read recently that hope, loyalty, and betrayal of this kind are what love is made out of.

[Never4Got]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misombra

aw. group hug. okay break.

i don't know what to say never4get. i read in a book i read recently that hope, loyalty, and betrayal of this kind are what love is made out of.

So that would mean to go ahead? I love her.....I always have......but I will be giving up all I have now and I'm sure end up in another divorce as soon as I make this move.......my wife knows about Judy, but not about this.......even years ago it was more than I could keep to myself.......my feelings say to go.......but then I look at my kids.......

[misombra]

you don't really know judy anymore. she should be more of an image and memories in your mind at this point it's been so long. i think that there are circumstances where we just don't get to be with a person we're in love for whatever reason and we have to let them go and love them even though they're not there and try to make the best of our lives without them. we also tend to take for granted what we have, and it isn't until we lose them that we step back and realize how much we love them. think of all the great things your wife has done for you, other than giving you your children. she didn't walk away with your child (that she said was not yours) and marry some other person. that is terrible. i could never have a child with a man and not tell him that it was his. if i was a man and a woman did that to me i would probably never forgive her. i can't tell you what to decide, nobody can. it is completely up to you as much as it sucks.

[Never4Got]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misombra

you don't really know judy anymore. she should be more of an image and memories in your mind at this point it's been so long. i think that there are circumstances where we just don't get to be with a person we're in love for whatever reason and we have to let them go and love them even though they're not there and try to make the best of our lives without them. we also tend to take for granted what we have, and it isn't until we lose them that we step back and realize how much we love them. think of all the great things your wife has done for you, other than giving you your children. she didn't walk away with your child (that she said was not yours) and marry some other person. that is terrible. i could never have a child with a man and not tell him that it was his. if i was a man and a woman did that to me i would probably never forgive her. i can't tell you what to decide, nobody can. it is completely up to you as much as it sucks.

Thanks

I know exactly what you're saying and that's what makes it ever more difficult....I just got back from a little league ball game with my youngest boy.....(I coach both their teams) and thought about how screwed up things would be if I went for this. Also, yes, my present wife has been there.....things have been rough, and I've wondered in the past if she was messing around on me, but, I'm a trusting man, I asked her, she said no, and that was that.

As for Judy.......yes, this whole dilema has ran through my mind countless times since finding out....how could she NOT tell me???? Her answer to that was she had heard that I was dating someone and serious with them and didn't want to mess that up for me/combined with the fact that apparently she had told her parents initially that it wasn't mine either. Apparently they agreed to let her move back home as long as she obeyed their rules......which was NO going out......."she was pregnant and didn't need to be going out" I was told.

Now the toughest part.......I now, all of a sudden have a son in college which I've never met. The way it sounds to me at this point, she doesn't want me to meet him unless I'm ready and willing to become his father too. She said she knows if I meet him, her husband will go nuts and want a divorce. (he apparently knows about this all too and has told her he will divorce her if she goes ahead with this. I don't think she's happy or has been for a long time....if ever.......

I fell like I've GOT to meet my son.......but she holds all the cards. I DO resent that and all the years I've missed. Judy's husband has nothing to do with this, neither does my wife, and I don't want to hurt either one of them.......but, I probably still love Judy more than anyone I've ever loved......I worked for years to "let it go" because I thought she had and we had no connection anymore.........now I know she never did let it go and was a confused, intimidated young lady when this all happened......She has also said that Jonathon (my son I've never met) does know about me. She told him after he turned 18 and it's their secret. He doesn't know who exactly or where I'm at.......but has seen my picture and knows I'm not far from where he grew up........

What in the world do I do???? On one hand, like you said in so many words, the grass always looks greener over there..........but by the same token.......I've missed the one person I truely loved for so long thinking I was a fool for feeling that way about her and now come to find out.......she's felt the same way and probably more so........

[Frasbee]

I was almost gonna read that.

[misombra]

i think you should appreciate what you have. everybody will always have a person that they just can't forget no matter who comes in our lives next. things would be screwed up if you went with judy. you would be giving up your life, and your children's life if you did this for a woman who denied you your son for all these years and gave up on you. the story that she didn't tell you because someone told her that you were serious with someone else is totally bogus, don't you think? i do. that wouldn't be any excuse for me. yet she would tell you that she loves you knowing how you feel about her and knowing that you have a family of your own now. you trust your wife and you love your children. how long are you going to hang on judy's strings? you have had barely any contact with her in years. that isn't love. love is your home with your family. it's not fond memories of somebody or making excuses for the things they've done wrong.

but if you do decide to divorce and be with judy (hopefully you will first divorce) think of the turmoil you would be putting your children through, in the name of love. you have more to think about at this point than the past. children do not do well with their parents divorcing. it seems like you're really involved in their lives right now, that would decrease significantly. your wife would be so bitter that you chose a woman who had betrayed you in such a way over her, damn that would be painful. think about if she did that to you. if she had a boyfriend in her past that beat her or whatever, but then decided later after marrying you and having your children that she loved him more and went back to him. and you say that you think she cheated on you... well same with judy...right?

i don't know, like i said i can't decide for you, but i hope you do the right thing for your family and yourself.

it's natural to long for other people even if you're in a relationship. some people will always live in our hearts and as much as we'd like to carve them out of there it's incredibly difficult to impossible. that doesn't mean that we should change our lives or give up what we had because they've decided to make their come back. it's all about timing.

what do you think?..

[Never4Got]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misombra

i think you should appreciate what you have. everybody will always have a person that they just can't forget no matter who comes in our lives next. things would be screwed up if you went with judy. you would be giving up your life, and your children's life if you did this for a woman who denied you your son for all these years and gave up on you. the story that she didn't tell you because someone told her that you were serious with someone else is totally bogus, don't you think? i do. that wouldn't be any excuse for me. yet she would tell you that she loves you knowing how you feel about her and knowing that you have a family of your own now. you trust your wife and you love your children. how long are you going to hang on judy's strings? you have had barely any contact with her in years. that isn't love. love is your home with your family. it's not fond memories of somebody or making excuses for the things they've done wrong.

but if you do decide to divorce and be with judy (hopefully you will first divorce) think of the turmoil you would be putting your children through, in the name of love. you have more to think about at this point than the past. children do not do well with their parents divorcing. it seems like you're really involved in their lives right now, that would decrease significantly. your wife would be so bitter that you chose a woman who had betrayed you in such a way over her, damn that would be painful. think about if she did that to you. if she had a boyfriend in her past that beat her or whatever, but then decided later after marrying you and having your children that she loved him more and went back to him. and you say that you think she cheated on you... well same with judy...right?

i don't know, like i said i can't decide for you, but i hope you do the right thing for your family and yourself.

it's natural to long for other people even if you're in a relationship. some people will always live in our hearts and as much as we'd like to carve them out of there it's incredibly difficult to impossible. that doesn't mean that we should change our lives or give up what we had because they've decided to make their come back. it's all about timing.

what do you think?..

What do i think? I think you are providing me exactly what I needed! An unattached, unbiased opinion. My freinds, and relatives which are privy to the knowledge are very straight forward either one way or the other, but, believe it or not are nearly split exactly in half as to their advice.

I can see where you are coming from and it makes good, logical sense to me. I believe my biggest stumbling block is the child. How do I/can I deal with this. I'm convinced that she wants some kind of relationship with me in order for her to risk having her husband find out and meet Jonathon. By the same token, I would/will need to tell my wife also..........that reaction also worries me. Moreso even than Judy, I think I would beat myslef the rest of my life knowing I have a son I've never met if I don't though.......

[misombra]

why is she still so scared to do what she needs to do to make her happy. she gave up her chance with you because somebody told her to. she gave up the chance for her son to know you as a father because somebody told her to. now she's going to give up a chance for her son to know his father because her husband wants it that way? will she ever learn? does your wife not know about her step son? if not then you should tell her. be honest with your wife. that's one of the things that can make being in a relationship with sombody so unhappy, is them not knowing you, not being transparent, having big secrets. i don't think she'll divorce you over that. it wasn't your fault. she said it wasn't yours and you believed her. her reaction might be shock and confusion but it's a lot better than a husband that has this secret that boils up in his mind every now and then. do what you think is right and don't worry about the consequences. easier said than done i know but it's better to have it out in the open. it can only make your marriage better. marriages will always have problems like this to deal with but the point is to deal with them together and help each other no matter how big or small that problem is. and judy should learn to do the same, be honest with herself and not be afraid of other people. those people have lived her life for her. i don't know why her husband would be upset about you meeting your son. maybe because he believes that your son is his since he raised him or whatever i don't know. if it were me and i was deep into this situation i would want my child to meet his father come hell or high water. no earthly being would stop me. that's what it is to live life, to take risks, to do things on your own and trust yourself. the way you describe her it doesn't really sound like that's her. try to be in touch with him. he's an adult now and you don't have to go through his parents. if you don't you'll always think about it. and your wife will never know one of your biggest secrets. you never know how somebody will react so one shouldn't really concern themselves with the reaction of others. you might be surprised with your wife. she may just be supportive and give you the help you need and you just might realize that she is a stronger person than this other woman could ever have been, and that this person cares for you and your wellbeing more than any other woman could. i don't know your wife so i couldn't predict a reaction in the least. that's just the ideal situation. you don't know. why live your life trying to hide from your wife? why is judy letting other people dictate what she does even though the consequences have been far from favorable. she ultimately got both of you into this situation, she'll go either way. she'll either try to end the situation or she'll get you deeper into it. who knows. i say be honest with yourself and with your wife. it makes things a whole lot easier. yeah?

[Never4Got]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misombra

why is she still so scared to do what she needs to do to make her happy. she gave up her chance with you because somebody told her to. she gave up the chance for her son to know you as a father because somebody told her to. now she's going to give up a chance for her son to know his father because her husband wants it that way? will she ever learn? does your wife not know about her step son? if not then you should tell her. be honest with your wife. that's one of the things that can make being in a relationship with sombody so unhappy, is them not knowing you, not being transparent, having big secrets. i don't think she'll divorce you over that. it wasn't your fault. she said it wasn't yours and you believed her. her reaction might be shock and confusion but it's a lot better than a husband that has this secret that boils up in his mind every now and then. do what you think is right and don't worry about the consequences. easier said than done i know but it's better to have it out in the open. it can only make your marriage better. marriages will always have problems like this to deal with but the point is to deal with them together and help each other no matter how big or small that problem is. and judy should learn to do the same, be honest with herself and not be afraid of other people. those people have lived her life for her. i don't know why her husband would be upset about you meeting your son. maybe because he believes that your son is his since he raised him or whatever i don't know. if it were me and i was deep into this situation i would want my child to meet his father come hell or high water. no earthly being would stop me. that's what it is to live life, to take risks, to do things on your own and trust yourself. the way you describe her it doesn't really sound like that's her. try to be in touch with him. he's an adult now and you don't have to go through his parents. if you don't you'll always think about it. and your wife will never know one of your biggest secrets. you never know how somebody will react so one shouldn't really concern themselves with the reaction of others. you might be surprised with your wife. she may just be supportive and give you the help you need and you just might realize that she is a stronger person than this other woman could ever have been, and that this person cares for you and your wellbeing more than any other woman could. i don't know your wife so i couldn't predict a reaction in the least. that's just the ideal situation. you don't know. why live your life trying to hide from your wife? why is judy letting other people dictate what she does even though the consequences have been far from favorable. she ultimately got both of you into this situation, she'll go either way. she'll either try to end the situation or she'll get you deeper into it. who knows. i say be honest with yourself and with your wife. it makes things a whole lot easier. yeah?

misombra;

Apparently, she believes that is what she is finally doing...(doing what SHE needs/wants to do for her to be happy).

No, my wife knows about Judy, she has since we got serious way back when....but knows nothing about my son....yet anyway. That's part of my problem, how/when/what to tell her. She has been very defensive/jealous in the past over "old girlfriends", my ex and Judy to the extent she would not allow me to go to the town where Judy lives when our oldest played sports there because she was afraid I'd run into her. My "ex" and her (my wife) actually went to school together and haven't talked in over 10 years now.

From what I gather, mostly from Diane, my cousins wife, her husband's problem is twofold. 1) as you say, he is very jealous because he is the only "father" Jonathon has ever known.....and I agree completely.....I can never be that. 2) Apparently they have had their problems over the years, and at least some of it has been because of me.....she told him about me too, then he apparently somehow figured out who I was and that I was at their wedding reception.....she had apparently tried to find me again a few years back online and he found that.....In fights between them she has apparently told him that she wishes she would have never married him and went after me......honestly, why their still together, I'm not sure from the sound of it, but then I have to reallize that my cousins wife is once more friends with judy and believes we should be together.......

What you said next "i would want my child to meet his father come hell or high water no earthly being would stop me." is apparently what Judy also believes now, but I think that she knows if she does this, her marriage is over..."that will be the last straw" is exactly what she told Diane my cousins wife...and there are 2 other kids there too.

You're right though, I don't have to go through Judy to meet Jonathon.......I've considered this too......

I'm not trying to hide from my wife.......I've just simply never had to deal with anything like this and quite frankly, wanted others opinions before I did tell her. You're right though, it's difficult to judge because you don't know her.

About being honest to myself.......I believe that's one of MY biggest problems right now......I don't know if I'm over anaylizing or what, but there is honesty in everthing I have to consider......I love my family, I have to meet my son and I loved this woman more than anything else I've ever loved......she went away, but now she's come back......I know what she did to me was wrong and I know it makes no sense.....but just the possibility that we could finally be together again is very hard to fight.....I've never been a good writing person so I probably can not convey it that well, but for a long time, she was the only thing that mattered to me, then, I thought she dumped me........I hurt so bad for so long........and now I find out she never did want to dump me and it was her sending me all those things for years and years.......

Can you see how hard this is for me?

[ilker]

Hey` never4got i think its too long to read and reply try to write something shorter pLz

[misombra]

never4got- don't listen to ilker...

i can see how it is difficult. i'm really sorry. you will do what is in your heart. you can come here and vent and make it as long as you want. i'll listen...