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Thread: Inaugural Book Thread

  1. moeburn's Avatar
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    Farenheit 451 (Book burning)
    Beardless Warriors (18 year olds in WW2)
    War of the Rats (snipers in WW2)
    The Veteran (loads of fun crap)
    The Day of the Jackal (assassination attempt on De Gualle in the 60's)

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    Death is like sex in highschool, because if you knew how many times you missed it, you'd be paralyzed.

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    I find most interesting the first 400 years of Christianity with Gnostics, Ebionites, and Orthodox Christians all over the place debating over Christology (Christs's identity: man or God?), Trinity, and ethics. I find quite fascinating that so many people nowadays take the established belief system for granted. Most of them don't even realize that the only reason why we have the Orthodox/Catholic version of Christianity today is because the Orthodox Byzantines at the time simply declared home rule and announced the Gnostics and Ebionites heretics! So the only reason why protestants and Catholics today believe that Christ was a man AND a God is because the Orthodox Byzantines got sick of debating and fused two opinuons in one and built the whole belief system on that. The most fascinating part, however, is that most Christians today strongly believe that this belief sysetm has evolved straight from the teachings of Christ! But Peter, one of Christ's apostle who was practically the closest one to Christ, therefore someone you would expect to have the most legitimate view on Christianity as such, was later claimed a heretic by Paul, a transformed Christian who supposedly had a vision of Christ, but who didn't even know Christ!!! Peter's view on Christianity simply vanished throughout time, leaving us with suspicious interpretations from people who barely knew Christ.

    Of course, one could say that such was the will of God, and that what we have today, Orthodox/Catholic Christianity, was according to Divine plan of God, but that would be hagiography (your own interpretation). So if it weren't for the undeniable power of Orthodox Byzantines, we could've evolved a completely different belief system of Gnostics or Ebionites for example.

    Gnostics, by the way, believed that Christ wasn't a man at all. They believed that the world was possessed by an Evil Prince and Christ appeared to only a few chosen ones to save them from the Evil One. They were essentially Platonists, and believed that matter cannot be perfect, therefore Christ was not a man, because men are subject to change and change is imperfect. Historians speculate that the fourth Gospel of John is heavily Gnostic and wonder why it was canonized - it is from the Gospel of John that we have the notion that the path that leads to Heaven is narrow, and few will find it. A very Gnostic notion: they believed that Christ appeared to only a few chosen ones and gave secret teachings. The religion was sometimes called esoteric (secret) Christianity.

    So, my verdict is: if only a few centuries after Christ's death there were so many different interpretations and writings circulating, how do we know that what we base our modern Christianity on is even related to the teachings of Christ at all?

    Another thing I find really peculiar is that there were lots of Gospels, letters, and books circulating that were kicked out of the New Testament, as well as the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible, since to them, it's never been old in the first place). There's a whole gathering of books that were kicked out of the Old Testament - the Apocrypha, and Pseudopygrapha. Apocrypha, is a collection of books the rabbies kicked out of OT altogether, for various reasons. Among them are: Tobit, Judith, Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Daniel and Sazanna (what the?), Bel and the Snake, Ecclesiasticus, Barukh, Ezrdas... interesting, huh? What's really interesting, is that Jesus himself has probably read these books in his time, since he had the Septuagint version of the Bible! Among the Pseudopygrapha (books that were written under a pseudonymn, since Ezra banned prophetic literature, having grown sick of the numerous "prophets" here and there) we find Jubilees, The Secret Book of Adam and Eve (pretty cool huh?), Enok, Apocalypse of Ezra. Most of these writings are very apocalyptic.

    There's also New Testament Apocrypha - the Gospel of James (Jesus's brother supposedly), numerous letters from Apostles. Most of these got kicked out and only few wwere canonized. What's really cool is that historians believe that only 7 of 10 Paul's letters in the New Testament are authentic. Here's the books of the Bible they believe are not written by Paul, but somebody else writing in the name of Paul: Ephesians, Colossians, and II Thessalonians, so-called, the Deutero-Pauline writings, which were written about 10 to 20 years after Paul's death, around 70-80-CE.
    I have it all. Including kino.

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    Interesting, Juliet. I think there is some good info in that link I posted that supports a lot of what you've said, in case someone wants sources other than the word of someone who calls herself Killerbabe.

    I think that's what the Davinci Code brings to the table in it's most important aspect, it's this discussion that in fact what a lot of us took as fact may be legitimately questioned and some historical facts supports it as opposed to blind faith as religion sometimes asks of it's people.

    Freddie
    All I know is I know nothing - Socrates

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    *locks the door in hopes that nomas will never find out*

    raverboy
    ...this is just my perspective on the situation...

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    *finds out

    *attempts to kick door open

    *injures right foot

    *goes to ER

    *sends raverboy the bill

    Freddie
    All I know is I know nothing - Socrates

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    *puts a bottle of corona outside the door

    Can he resist?

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    Thanks fior the link Freddie I'll definitely have a look at it when I have more time.

    I wish I'd studied more of this at school - being an avowed scientist & not really paying much attention to religion (at 6 years in RE when we were meant to be doing the story of the creation I wrote about the big bang). It's amazing how actions and the results of power struggles so long ago have such a long lasting effect on the world today.

    I remember watching a programme about Mary Magdalene and how she was ostracized even though she was probably Jesus's lover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomas
    *goes to ER

    *sends raverboy the bill
    Heheh, you guys don't have free healthcare...

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    Death is like sex in highschool, because if you knew how many times you missed it, you'd be paralyzed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moeburn
    Heheh, you guys don't have free healthcare...
    Heheh, neither do you guys.

    Freddie
    All I know is I know nothing - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomas
    Heheh, neither do you guys.

    Freddie
    Last I checked, all I need is a health card, which is obtained by paying your taxes.

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    Death is like sex in highschool, because if you knew how many times you missed it, you'd be paralyzed.

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    Bingo! Paying your taxes.

    Paying = Not Free

    Canada = 39% federal income tax
    Ontario Canada = 15% sales tax
    Property tax?..can you afford it??

    What happens if you go over your preset limit of, what $100,000.00? Ask your parents.,

    If you live close to the border, you probably will see lots of Canadian license plates on shopping malls in the US and at the gas pumps.

    Here a 30 pack of beer runs about $13.99...what's it in Canada?? And after tax?

    I don't drink, but that one was for Raver.

    But all in all, I prefer your system. I can afford health insurance and it's not such a big bite out of my economy (it's the flat rate that kills you guys)...but I wish everyone was covered. Ah well, I have no power to change this, so I'm gonna stop worrying.

    Just remember..nothing is free?

    Freddie
    All I know is I know nothing - Socrates

  13. moeburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomas
    Bingo! Paying your taxes.

    Paying = Not Free

    Canada = 39% federal income tax
    Ontario Canada = 15% sales tax
    Property tax?..can you afford it??

    What happens if you go over your preset limit of, what $100,000.00? Ask your parents.,

    If you live close to the border, you probably will see lots of Canadian license plates on shopping malls in the US and at the gas pumps.

    Here a 30 pack of beer runs about $13.99...what's it in Canada?? And after tax?

    I don't drink, but that one was for Raver.

    But all in all, I prefer your system. I can afford health insurance and it's not such a big bite out of my economy (it's the flat rate that kills you guys)...but I wish everyone was covered. Ah well, I have no power to change this, so I'm gonna stop worrying.

    Just remember..nothing is free?

    Freddie
    I prefer the comfort of a flat rate over a broken leg and a hospital bill.

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    Death is like sex in highschool, because if you knew how many times you missed it, you'd be paralyzed.

  14. nomas is offline Registered User
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    Like I said..I prefer your system in that everyone is covered.

    Sure enough, a hospital bill here is outrageous for the uninsured. Luckily I'm insured because I have a nice job and can afford it. But there's trade offs, like I suggested...and I'll bet you Raverboy will prefer being able to afford lots liquor than to have his money forced out of his hands to cover helth insurance for everyone.

    Not Freddie, though.

    Freddie
    All I know is I know nothing - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomas
    Like I said..I prefer your system in that everyone is covered.

    Sure enough, a hospital bill here is outrageous for the uninsured. Luckily I'm insured because I have a nice job and can afford it. But there's trade offs, like I suggested...and I'll bet you Raverboy will prefer being able to afford lots liquor than to have his money forced out of his hands to cover helth insurance for everyone.

    Not Freddie, though.

    Freddie
    I vowed to not drink anything flammable....


    ....intentionally.

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    Death is like sex in highschool, because if you knew how many times you missed it, you'd be paralyzed.

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    There you go.

    Now remember..maybe you'll one day want to own a car and you'll have to give it gas. Gas is flammable..hopefully you'll be okay with that.

    Freddie
    All I know is I know nothing - Socrates

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