Yes Shhh, but i am not here to argue with you, you asked for sources of logic i gave them to you. Socrates does not argue for christianity, but if logical reasoning for christianity is what you wanted then starting with the reason for religion itself is the best place to go. logic aout Christianity is much better absorbed if you first understand the basic logic for religion and afterlife itself.

that implies there IS any kind of logic in it, which i strongly object to.

i agree. i'm not sure what the **** shh! is looking for when she asks for a good logic in subscribing to christianity ideology. there is none...just like there isn't any sound logic for subscribing to ANY sort of religion or spirituality...

Maybe that's her point?

could be. i just got that feeling it was one of those people who rip on other peoples beliefs when they themselves believe in something with just as little foundation. christians ripping on muslim or new age people ripping on christians or some personal version of spirituality ripping on all of them.

I as Asip, do not have a specific religion. I will not toss people away because of their beliefs or try to persuade them in anyway to believe what I believe. When I was younger I went to church regulary but did not follow a lot because I did not believe. I do believe in higher power and that everything happens for a reason. Again, I'm not a religious person, I'm a spiritual person.

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If you can't handle the thorns, don't crave the rose!!

i think, religion only exists because:

1. people don't know how to behave themselves. if everybody'd stick to the rules of common decency, moses wouldn't have had to come up with those commandmends. ("they won't listen to me, so i just tell them the LORD told me to tell 'em") and people needed to be kept in awe of punishment for law-breakers, too, else the whole scheme wouldn't have worked.

2. people just can't face the idea that death really means "game over". quite understandable, though, it really is scary to think about your body rotting away with absolutely no chance of doing anything about it.

Religion means ZERO to me in a relationship. I don't believe in organized religion and refuse to take part in religious practice. However, I dated a devout Catholic for yrs, and never had a problem w/that. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion about religion, and for her that was very important. I always agreed that she could raise our kids Catholic, everything like that, but in the end my lack of faith was a major reason that our relationship did not last. It's funny how most people who are not religious, never say anything about it when asked. My own opinion when asked is, "If you're religious, that's cool...but it's not for me." And I leave it at that. Whereas devout Christians and Catholics find the need to pound their religion into those like myself. Yet somehow they can't understand the fact that they are pushing us further away, not bringing us in. The woman I marry will have to accept my faith (or lack thereof) just as I will be willing to accept hers. For me, it is 100% the person that counts. Being religious and being a wonderful person do not go hand-in-hand, which is what so many people choose to think. There are TONS of people out there who are wonderful individuals that have a lot to give, that are not religious (I'd like to think I'm a part of that group). But like I said, religious affiliation does not mean anything to me. Plus...the super religious ones are nowhere near as good in bed.

freakin fascisty so and sizzos or get broken.

Hugo - I am not saying there is no logical explanation for the creation of religion. I am saying there is no logical argument for Christian theology, which considering it is a self-professed faith-based religion, there isn’t any. I do not say this to denigrate Christianity; it is simply fact. The fact that the emphasis on faith (belief) over deeds as a prerequisite for Heaven is unquestionable. Anyway, I am sure you are aware that religion/monotheism/belief in afterlife predates Socrates by a long shot.

Fun sounds - Tone was correct in assuming my position is pretty much in line with yours, so calm down before you have a heart attack. But I do believe there is one piece of logic in strong support of a God-figure, and that is the question of how the first elements came into being, which science cannot explain. Until science can explain this, I will hold out hope for the existence of God. As for elevating my own religious preference over others, fear not: I rip my own, too, when appropriate. However, since my religion is not dogmatic, there is very little to attack, except for the more orthodox versions, who (like Christian fundamentalists) believe they have God all figured out. To their credit, though, even the Orthodox of my religion don’t believe theirs is the only way to God; they merely believe that theirs is the only way for anyone calling themselves Jewish. Also, you will not catch me ripping mainstream Islam. I actually think it is a very nice religion, despite its having been hijacked by the religious extremists, which I believe is also happening with Christianity in America.

Alice - I do think you are right on the money when you say, “people just can't face the idea that death really means "game over". quite understandable, though, it really is scary to think about your body rotting away with absolutely no chance of doing anything about it”. This seems to me to be the best reason for the creation of religion.

You asked for sources of logic about christianity, i gave them to you. I should have known that you only wanted to get into a petty argument about it all. Sorry, this time it's not worth it to me. If you really want to know, then read the sources i gave you.

You are a poor loser, hugo.

I knew all you wanted to do was argue.

--this is why people avoid discussing religion and are generally disgusted with humanity.

I would be very careful with suggestions for some of these statistics Bluevette. First of all Christianity in itself is made of differeing sects, maybe you have to start breaking christianity down into differing sects such as Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Protestant, Evangelism, Mormonism and other cults that exist out there before you can pegion hole the entire religious sector. Even Orthodoxy and Catholicism in their own right differ greatly. I understand what you are trying to say, but there are so many other forces in play in this and your suggestion for statistics (Not provided dare I say) are not enough to sustain the assumption that two christian parents would make a better couple (I.e. lower divorce rate) than other couples out there.

Maybe an investigation into other religions and demographic statistics of other countries would help you to exapnd your thoughts on this. In your search for statistics on long lasting marriage differing between non Christian couples and Christian couples, maybe you can also include mixed religion couples, Budhist couples, Muslim couples, Jewish couples, Hindu couples etc... It may make you reach some very interesting conclusions and ask yourself some very interesting questions. E.g. what will your view on Christianity be if you find for example that Muslims have a lower divorce rate than Christians?

For myself I really don't care that much for religious beliefs of my partner as long as both personalities are compatible together. Having said that, I have always been lucky enough to find a woman with similar beliefs as I.

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My Demon revokes any prayer
He's grown contempt for love and hope
He betrays trust, twists truth and fair
Indifference is his way to cope
Engulfing sound of sensations
He quells with voices of despair
And muse of short lived inspirations
Flees at the sight of his cold stare
~Moy Demon - Mihayeel Lermontov~