And the argument would STILL be flawed if you assumed 'God' was *imperfect*. It a null argument. For the reason I just stated.

LOL, Vash you are naughty. When were you gonna mention that argument is one that's been debunked?

Here's the link again for those who want it:

You are right. i just should have said that the argument she presented wasn't the least bit compelling to me. I think the watchmaker argument at least requires some thought before it is dismissed.

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And just to save time, here's the other thread. The whole gamut is here, from atheists to true believers.

Protestant Family and my search for truth.

The watchmaker? Feh. We debunked that in philosophy 101.

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God, so atrocious in the Old Testament, so attractive in the New--the Jekyl and Hyde of sacred romance.
-Mark Twain

If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
-Albert Einstein

... why take a class in philosophy?

Anyways, the most concise way to sum up my religious beliefs are by saying I believe in (and at least recognize) the greatness of what Jesus taught. Whatever God he was talking about I believe in. And whatever lessons he gave I just recognize as being the greatest moral authority

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"I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul"

Why? To open my mind. Learn how to think. Uhm. Learn the origins of the math you so value. Math and philosophy go hand in hand. Hell, a huge chunk of philosophy consists of logic problems.

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God, so atrocious in the Old Testament, so attractive in the New--the Jekyl and Hyde of sacred romance.
-Mark Twain

If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
-Albert Einstein

Learning how to think is best done in a math or science course, plain and simple. The "philosophy" of math is just stuff that can be dumbed down and debated so everyone feels smart

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"I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul"

Philosophy is awesome. It would be good for you, DM. It would help you stretch your brain in new ways. I actually can't believe you haven't taken it yet. It is usually a required course.

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Yeah, Mr. Negativity. If you were to sit your ass down in a philosophy class and actually take it serious you'd be surprised. It'd change you for the better. Who knows, you might even get laid after a semester or two of it. Believe me, it's anything but dumbed down.

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God, so atrocious in the Old Testament, so attractive in the New--the Jekyl and Hyde of sacred romance.
-Mark Twain

If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
-Albert Einstein

All I want or need for the next 2 years are math and chemistry. Last year I had a writing seminar and had to put up with people who could never be told when they are just wrong

That's why I love debating chem.


Me and my 2 best friends got into a huge debate over some deal in azide chemistry last year and they were soooooooo convinced they were right, claiming I was a dumbass and whatever nonstop. If it was a non-math or science course they would have gotten away with it like in a writing or philosophy class. So they went to the TA and got sat the fucck down. That's why I like those courses

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"I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul"

I don't even care about sex anymore how I used to, it's too far down the road if ever and I'm knowing it

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"I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul"

What kind of debate would they have in a writing class?

Believe me, a philosophy professor is going to tell you that you're wrong. Or you don't know what the hell you're talking about. There's definitely room for differences of opinion, but those opinions are going to have to be solid. It isn't like a literature class where the professor just nods and says maybe or could be to everything a kid suggests. Nor is it like a history course where you memorize chunks of information and regurgitate it.

Philosophy is about application of knowledge. Much like math. You've got the right mind for it.

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God, so atrocious in the Old Testament, so attractive in the New--the Jekyl and Hyde of sacred romance.
-Mark Twain

If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
-Albert Einstein

Oh God, I used to debate people but just completely stopped because I couldn't use profane language to express my opposition to their ideas. Like one time we read a novel called I, Rigoberta Menchu which is about the life of a Guatemalan (but Mayan) woman during the genocide in Guatemala. I told the class in less offense terms than the way they lived their lives was stupid as hell if they're in the face of a genocide. Being at risk for starvation, they turned down fertilizers offered by European agencies to improve their crop yields because "their ancestors didn't use it". And then wondered why they were starving. And refused to learn the Spanish language because it wasn't the language of "their ancestors", yet they kept signing new agreements with the government that they couldn't read and didn't understand why they kept getting fuccked over! I said they should just separate things like agricultural techniques and whatever from their culture, because that's the reason they are getting screwed

And then some stupid bitch in the class says something like "That's just this modernist notion floating around that these people can separate techniques and technology from culture". OK then bitch, don't come crying to me when these people are massacred. If they want to tie their hands behind their back then go ahead, but expect it coming

You think I could have just said something like "Well then they need to change their culture". But saying that in the class would amount to everyone lynching me for being such a horrible person trying to kill another persons culture! You just can't win with these people

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"I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul"

None of that is related to philosophy. Actually, philosophy is a very logical field. you would like it, I think.

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